Sticky lifting keel on my Bradwell 18

[Matt]

I have an approximately 40 year old Bradwell 18. She has a lifting, swing keel and for the past couple of seasons it has been sticking in the up position. I can release it by taking off the keel-plate and pressing hard onto the keel with a metal rod that I keep on board for that purpose. It is a bit of a bother though and I don't seem to be able to master the trick of finding the keel with the rod by pressing down through the pipe the keel-haul line runs through. I have to take the plate off each time.
I've tried replacing the keel-haul line and the shackle connecting it to the keel but it still jams up. Unfortunately the boat is on a drying mooring at the moment so there is no option to leave her keel a little but dropped all the time.
Are there any other Bradwell owners out there, or sailors with similar keel arangements? Have any of you found a way to stop a keel from sticking when hauled up hard?
Posted from my phone so apologies for typos.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I don't know the Bradwell but could you feed the keel-haul line through a steel tube so that you can then push the tube down through the opening and straight onto the keel? Doing that will mean you can use a larger diameter piece of metal as your keel bodger and the line will also serve to guide it into position.

I don't know if that would be practical, or if it even makes sense.:nonchalance:

 

[neilf39]

Is she drying out onto mud or sand? If it's mud the it is probably squeezing up between the keel and the keel box sides and holding the plate in place hence the need to push it down with a stick. If you motor around it will slowly wash out and the plate free up. If you ever get any stones wedged up there it can be fun trying to get the keel down.
I had a different boat with a swing keel and had to have a hole made so I could push the keel down. As it had slight play around the pivot it did not always sit in the middle of the box so putting the rod in the right place was a pain. I ended up with a rod with a flared U end so it would auto-locate.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Is she drying out onto mud or sand? If it's mud the it is probably squeezing up between the keel and the keel box sides and holding the plate in place hence the need to push it down with a stick. If you motor around it will slowly wash out and the plate free up. If you ever get any stones wedged up there it can be fun trying to get the keel down.
I had a different boat with a swing keel and had to have a hole made so I could push the keel down. As it had slight play around the pivot it did not always sit in the middle of the box so putting the rod in the right place was a pain. I ended up with a rod with a flared U end so it would auto-locate.

+1 - chap in my club had the same issue on a mud mooring - every tide would push another bit of mud into the slot - he ended up constructing a slot flusher out of semi rigid plastic to stop the stuff getting into the keel box in the first place....

 

[Seajet]

Some swing keel boats benefit in the short term from leaving a few inches of slack on the plate uphaul, so the plate moves up & down a little with each tide - and possibly jiggles with wave action when the tide is in - to free off any mud.

The major snag with doing this is it will accelerate wear on the plate hole and its' pivot bolt mountings, leading to much more serious problems.

Is it possible to beach the boat, roll her over a bit and secure her like that between tides, so as to remove and thoroughly inspect / smooth down the plate ?

Could be a build up of barnacles, mud or paint, sorted with a savage sort of file or rasp, maybe a surform.

Do beware too much antifoul build-up !

 

[Rigger Mortice]

You've found this site? http://www.bradwell18.org.uk/community/index.php
It's not very active but does mention keels getting jammed. Sometimes it's down to a build up of rust.

 

[Seajet]

Rigger Mortice,

good find.

Matt,

I forgot to mention rust, a distinct possibility !

I see on that Bradwell 18 site there's discussion about how to raise the boats for keel inspection; I have drawings and diagrams, detail photo's of the high trestles I keep my lift keel Anderson 22 on, I send these details to Anderson owners but people with other boats have adapted them.

If you PM me and swap e-mail addresses I'd happily pass on the trestle details, they're basically a pine / ply sandwich and take about 2-3 weeks steady work evenings & weekends to make, materials around £300.

You would need to adapt the hull profile to suit the Bradwell but that could be taken with cardboard cut to shape.

Just a thought but the offers' there if you need it.

In the meantime I think you need to careen ( beach & roll a bit ) her and temporarily remove the plate, if only to smooth it down between tides then attack properly over the winter ?

 

[neil_s]

I would second seajet's suggestion to leave the keel down a bit. Only an inch or two is needed - the constant slight working up and down on each tide seems to keep soft mud circulating through the keel box and stops the build up of hard caked on mud. Before I learned this trick, my keel jammed in the fully up position, requiring major engineering to free it off. It weighs 1000 lb!

Neil

 

[Matt]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. All very helpful. I'll give them a try, simplest first. I hadn't thought of rolling her while beached to get access from underneath. Where is a good spot to attach a line to pull her over: use a halyard from top of the mast, use one of the mast cleats, use one of the winches, or use somewhere else that I haven't thought of?
She drys onto mud so it could be that. The keel didn't drop easily though when I launched her this season after she had been sitting on it, on her trailer, over winter. I have always had the feeling that the keel was sticking at the keel-haul end rather than at the pivot end. I'm not sure though why I have that feeling. Maybe just reluctance to accept that the pivot pin assembly might be rusting.
One more question: Some posts mentioned adapting or having new metal fittings made. What sort of a place would be a good option to get something like that done, custom, small job metalwork I mean. What trade name should I search for on the internet or in the Yellow pages?
Thanks again for all the advice. I am feeling armed now with lots of things to try.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I think the only person who has suggested some metalwork was me. But that was just for a bit of piping of suitable diameter which you could very easily cut down with a hacksaw. You certainly wouldn't need an engineering workshop for it,

You can get steel pipe from a steel stockholder or, once you have an idea of the size, try Ebay.

 

[Seajet]

Matt,

if required - and I hope not - almost anything can be made by a decent small engineering workshop; despite Thatchers' efforts most towns still have these wonderful establishments !

I have used a local outfit like this to make up parts for my ( vertical ) lift keel assembly, pictured;

View attachment 43511


As I'm on a flying visit home here's a pic of my A22 on the high trestles I mentioned.

View attachment 43512


Andy

 

[tigr]

Of course it is also could be mud etc up in the box and also it could have been bent at some stage.
But is yours an original keel? mine had disappeared so I had a new one made up for mine by a company in Maidenhead, made up to the dimensions on the Bradwell18 website. But the website size was for a Mk2 and mine is a Mk1 so when fitted I found the keel would no pivot up into the box as it was a bit too long, also I went for a thicker piece of metal so the original lifting arm would not fit.
So could be the keel is too long or/and too thick if it has ben replaced.
I think the original Mk1 lifting arm was good to push the keel down if it sticks, mine was pivoted in the middle with the idea I think that you could lower it half down but it left a piece of it sticking up into the cockpit so was not very safe. There is a diagram on the website for a new version if that helps.
My poor boat has not been on the water much recently and I have replaced the lifting arm with a piece of chain, it went down fine last time but looking at it now there is so much gunk down the hole where the chain is I can't see how it will now move!
Look at the picture on the site for the old and new keel, beware that the keel just hooks onto a pivot, it is heavy and hard to hook back on again.
I'm guessing you have MK2 that has a rope to haul it up.
Hope some of this helps
www.bradwell18.org.uk

 

[jeremyshaw]

I used to keep a Bradwell 18 at Goldhanger near Maldon 30 years ago and had the same problem.

The mud was soft and as the boat bumped up and down it just worked its way into the keelbox.

I tried the "leave a few inches" idea but it did not work.

I just had to bang it out. I can't remember if I used a steel or wood bar but a nice sized piece of teak would probably be best. If you use metal might there not be a risk of burring the edge causing further problems later?

As has been suggested try beaching so you can inspect whether the plate is bent. There is usually a popular spot around most moorings where people do this - obviously a soft mud area while comfy for the boat makes it impossible to work around.

Try http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance-articles/20121-delicate-art-careening.html for careening tips.

 

[jasonrc_123]

Hi there tigr, do you know exactly how the center board comes off a mark 1 Bradwell 18? I have just bought one and mine needs replacing. Do you have any pictures or know where I can find any on replacing?
Cheers Jason.

 

[tigr]

Hi there tigr, do you know exactly how the center board comes off a mark 1 Bradwell 18? I have just bought one and mine needs replacing. Do you have any pictures or know where I can find any on replacing?
Cheers Jason.

It unhooks off the pin, I had my boat up on a home made cradle but I found the keel had to be vertical so in the end had to dig a hole in the driveway to get it at the right angle.
There is information here http://www.bradwell18.org.uk/keel/ and http://www.bradwell18.org.uk/documents/2015/11/centreplate-current.pdf but I found it was about an inch too long so had to cut and grind a bit off before it could pivot up into the casing.
I had mine made by DMS Laser profiles in Maidenhead £97.11. And Galvenised by Medway Galvanising Co, Sittingbourne.

 

[jasonrc_123]

Hi Tigr,

Thank you so much for this, I read one post that said I had to cut the fiberglass back on the hull and remove the pin from the inside? I thought there must me an easier way. I am new to sailing (apart from dingy sailing) so early days for me. I'm sure I'll have a load more questions lol.

Thanks again

Jason.

 

[jasonrc_123]

Hi again Tigr,
Just a thought about lifting the boat high enough to get the center board on and off..... could you lift it clear of the trailer (couple of feet) and then turn the boat on its side to be able to fully deploy the center board and swap old for new? Or would you risk breaking something due to the added weight of the center board?
Let me know your thoughts (and tell me if im being dull lol)
Cheers Jason.

 

[tigr]

I had to raise the boat high, more than a couple of feet. Think it had to be the complete height of the keel so it was higher than I wanted to lift, I worried about all that weight getting higher and higher, that's why I ended up digging a hole!
Somewhere I've read somebody beached their boat and rolled it on the side and then unhooked the keel. That was a MK2 they are pretty strong,
I helped a guy take apart a MK2 that had been washed up onto some rocks, there was not much damage but enough for an insurance claim. I'm pretty certain the Mk1's are even tougher. But I think I'd avoid being anywhere near the trailer as something sharp may dig into it.
I'm not a great expert but if there is anything you need to ask I'll do my best.

 

[jasonrc_123]

Thanks for your help,
The links for the center board are exactly what I was looking for.
I have sent out the drawings to a couple of steel fabricators i know so it's got the ball rolling. (Would still be sat here scratching my head if it wasn't for you).
I have asked for prices on 10 and 12 mm mild steel as some have used 10mm and others used 12mm.
Thanks again
Jason.

 

[tigr]

That got me thinking, I had to look back at the quotes to find I went for 12mm which was slightly bigger than standard which meant my keel "lifter" did not fit so I used a bit of galvanised chain (but this has gone rusty. so I'm going to adapt the old one). Only saying this because it could be handy to use the standard keel lifter and the centreboard case is a bit tight, if I'd known I would have had the section that it attaches to machined a little narrower.
I'd not looked at the forum for quite a while as I've had a lot of other things on the go, so I'd missed your posts.