Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Just using the same logic as my windlass.
Any sudden snatches taken on a cleat rather than the gears in the winch.
Stern Docking Capstans are they needed on a 60ft, views, opinons welcome
- Thread starter Tesams
- Start date
Just using the same logic as my windlass.
Any sudden snatches taken on a cleat rather than the gears in the winch.
vas
Well-Known Member
but I'll rather sip my G&T from a glass than a flower vase....
P.,
pretty sure that J will come along explaining that these particular flowers that live out of G&T with the right led lighting underneath produce under the right conditions and Med weather some enzymes that give the special taste that you'll never get in a decent crystal glass
enjoy your unpaid G&T while some of us have to work hard into the night! (drinking freddo espresso at half past eight!)
cheers
V.
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jfm
Well-Known Member
^^^^ That's a connoisseur's combo mapism- BS East plus Fever Tree. With lime no doubt. Chapeau! :encouragement:
newWave
Well-Known Member
For those wondering about the technique, as far as I know stopper lines are the correct technique as shown here :
http://www.animatedknots.com/rattai...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
Thanks, but it's rather Pinnacle, who introduced me to it, that should be praised.
I must say that I've never been a G&T fan, but the combo indeed stands head and shoulders above anything else I tried so far.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Can't argue on the principle, but you are not seriously suggesting to do that in any sort of "normal" pleasure boat, are you?
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Correct that is exactly what I was referring to although I didn't know it was called a rat tail
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Yup, that technique was shown to me by Cesare at San Lorenzo (you remember him?) last year when we were trying to tension the bow lines of my boat in La Spezia (on yet another bloody windy Med day
). I was all for loosening off the lines at the stern and motoring forward to allow the bow lines to be pulled in a little but he used the anchor winch and this rat tail technique to tension up the bow lines further and it does indeed work. I have since used it myself a couple of times when I have used my stern winches to tension the stern lines but actually, as I said above, I find it simpler to use the engines (carefully!)However IMHO it is an elegant technique which could be useful on occasions
BartW
Well-Known Member
I use this technique sometimes for tightening the bow lines.
(bring the extra rope to the anker winch )
for the stern lines, I never use the engines, I don't like that.
alway's use the stern winches,
we have a few techniques to take the rope from the winch,
originally BA had only one on P side, we have added a new extra winch on SB side last winter,
so for me, yes for sure you need them on a 60ft boat
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Agreed. What I meant in my previous post is that I've never seen anyone using it regularly when mooring stern-to, but there are indeed occasions when it has its place.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
We use a much simpler technique.
Just tye a bowline through the middle of our stern cleat and feed the line out to the quay bollard as a doubled one.
The returning end the comes back and round the leading edge of the same cleat and the back to the winch.
Our stern winches are aft of the cleats.
It is then a simple job to transfer completely to the cleat after tightening with the winch.
Only developed this technique this year whist in CF but we now use it all the time.
Just tye a bowline through the middle of our stern cleat and feed the line out to the quay bollard as a doubled one.
The returning end the comes back and round the leading edge of the same cleat and the back to the winch.
Our stern winches are aft of the cleats.
It is then a simple job to transfer completely to the cleat after tightening with the winch.
Only developed this technique this year whist in CF but we now use it all the time.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
'scuse me if I'm missing something M, but why do you need a doubled line to do that?
I mean, if you throw ashore the bowline end for the dock hand to attach to the bollard, and then pass the line around the cleat edge before tightening it with the winch, isn't it basically the same thing?
Just saying, because doubled lines have the disadvantage of making the maneuver a bit slower.
Mind, actually I'm also using doubled lines, but in a different way and for other reasons, as you possibly remember.
I mean, if you throw ashore the bowline end for the dock hand to attach to the bollard, and then pass the line around the cleat edge before tightening it with the winch, isn't it basically the same thing?
Just saying, because doubled lines have the disadvantage of making the maneuver a bit slower.
Mind, actually I'm also using doubled lines, but in a different way and for other reasons, as you possibly remember.
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Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Before this season, we always used to just use a single line but everyone else seemed to double them so we thought that we would try.
Actually, I think a doubled line works better - as long as you have a good bollard to loop round.
The big disadvantage with using double lines is that your crew (SWMBO) in my case has to be asertive with the dockmasters.
Believe me, she is good at being asertive!
It is very easy to loose control of your lines if you have one end tied to your boat and you throw the other end.
I general, dockmasters are not as good as the ones in CF.
Very often, the think that they know best so if you have just thrown them a line they will probably want to do something with it.
I don't think there is a dockmasters college out there anywhere.
The result could be that they tie your line off to something - now you have lost control of the line and consequently lost control of the whole situation.
Thats why we haven't done double ropes before now.
But the guys at CF actually know their stuff and woukd pass tge line back after looping it over the bollard.
I think this has made SWMBO more confident - in Mallorca on the way back I heard her giving orders to the dockmasters.
Remember when it is just the two of us, she has to rig the stern lines and get a lazy line onto the bow before I can leave the flybridge to help.
Sometimes she doesn't have time to get both the stern lines in place so, as long as there is one in place, she then concentrates on the lazy lines.
The other technique that we use - this also calls for asertiveness.
We deliberately let the stern lines off very loose.
You get all sorts of comments from people on the quay - saying things like "you are too far out"
But, think about it - the lazy lines are now also loose and easy to cleat off.
This technique is especially useful the first time into a berth.
You then winch back - and guess what - you are too far our - "told you so" comes from those helpful chaps on the quay.
Yes these gurs are correct but now I KNOW how much to let off from the lazy lines on the bow.
It is much easier letting a line off than pulling it in.
How many times have you seen people bursting blood vessels trying to pull lazy lines tight.
Of course once you are in, you should mark the lazy lines with a bit of tape so that next time you dock you can cleat the lazy line in exactly the correct place first time.
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DAW
Well-Known Member
On our "home" med berth we have fixed stern lines and spring lines and a single lazy line attached to a submerged chain for the dual bow lines. The boat is +50 feet, has capstans on both sides and dual stern cleats on both sides. We usually do the following:
back in, and tie off loosely with the stern lines on the lower cleats (2-3m)
run the lazy line forward and use the anchor winch to pull up the fixed chain and bow lines
bow lines are then tied off to the forward cleats in the right position
spring lines are then put onto capstans and used to pull the boat backwards to the correct distance
boat is held on the capstans by the spring lines and stern lines are then released from the lower cleats and fixed onto the upper cleats in the correct position
spring lines are then released from capstans, crossed over and attached to the lower cleats
The whole process takes about 5 minutes. There is never any need to tie off the lines wrapped around the capstans - three of four turns is usually enough to hold the boat while the stern lines are attached. We have a variation on the above for use with temporary lines when on a visitors berth in another marina.
In windy conditions with vacant places on one or both sides, we hold position with either the bow thruster or engines against the attached lines while the bow lines are attached (but much prefer the bow thruster).
So ... capstans essential from my point of view.
back in, and tie off loosely with the stern lines on the lower cleats (2-3m)
run the lazy line forward and use the anchor winch to pull up the fixed chain and bow lines
bow lines are then tied off to the forward cleats in the right position
spring lines are then put onto capstans and used to pull the boat backwards to the correct distance
boat is held on the capstans by the spring lines and stern lines are then released from the lower cleats and fixed onto the upper cleats in the correct position
spring lines are then released from capstans, crossed over and attached to the lower cleats
The whole process takes about 5 minutes. There is never any need to tie off the lines wrapped around the capstans - three of four turns is usually enough to hold the boat while the stern lines are attached. We have a variation on the above for use with temporary lines when on a visitors berth in another marina.
In windy conditions with vacant places on one or both sides, we hold position with either the bow thruster or engines against the attached lines while the bow lines are attached (but much prefer the bow thruster).
So ... capstans essential from my point of view.
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D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Check out post 24 of this thread
Wild Weasel
Active Member
Yes sorry didn't read the whole thread through before posting as went off topic.
Seems very involving and not something for pleasure boats.
Seems very involving and not something for pleasure boats.
Tesams
Member
Thanks for all the advice, decision made. Gonna have to pay for them.
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
Yes havinf learnt off the big boys in Montenegro aft the force 8 cross wind came through i saw how they docked
Ground lines on the bow, stern lines on the dock reverse back to assist moorimg winches. Use spectra strop to hold warp while transferinf to
Cleat from winch: job done!
Yes: i use the staysail winches (lewmar 58s) and lewmar 77 if its windy.
Get them!!
Ground lines on the bow, stern lines on the dock reverse back to assist moorimg winches. Use spectra strop to hold warp while transferinf to
Cleat from winch: job done!
Yes: i use the staysail winches (lewmar 58s) and lewmar 77 if its windy.
Get them!!