Steering Pedestal - Identification and Advice Required

[Deleted member 36384]

I am trying to identify the my steering system and the bevel box. At first I thought it was an older Mamba system but clearly that is not the case as the old Mamba systems had a crown gear exposed below the binnacle and not a bevel box; at least according to the old Mamba manuals available on the web.

The problem I have is that steering is getting stiff. I suspect that it is this bevel box and that the lubrication has either been contaminated or dried out over time. There is no sign of leakage of lubrication.

I can lift the bevel box up, which is lifting the attached vertical shaft, quite easily, but it comes to a stop, not a firm clunk as if there was a positive stop (see second pictures). Below the pedestal is another bevel box that is firmly attached to a bracket under the cockpit deck, then steering then runs through a set of tie rods and universal joints, to larger bevel bow with tiller arm, which is connected to the rudders tiller arm with a tie rod.

There is no way I can see to access the shaft coupling bolts either below the pedestal bevel box, or at the bottom of the pedestal. Could the pedestal shaft be connected via a spline and I just need to apply more force to slip the spline out? Has anyone see such an arrangement before?

Can anyone identify the bevel box and describe what it is like i.e. oil filled, grease packed; there is no grease nipple. I assume by removing the four cap screws the back just pops off and every thing comes out that way, not sure at all how to take this apart.

The yacht was commissioned in 1974 and was built in 1973, Southhampton at Woolmastons(?) Yard. Can't remember the correct name. Previously Tarrona identified the Universal Joints from the tie rods as being ex Jaguar, perhaps the steering is assembled from automotive parts. Do folks know of a good outfit that could overhaul the bevel boxes.

Thanks,

BlowingOldBoots

Pedestal With Compass and Binnacle Removed With Bevel Box In Position

Bevel Box Lifted Up To Full Extent - Easy To Lift Up, Weight of Shaft Only

Binnacle Bevel Box Coupling To Shaft In Side Pedestal When Bevel Box Is Lifted

Wheel Shaft Entering Bevel Box

Lower Bevel Box with Lower Pedestal Shaft Coupling At Top Of Picture

Lower Pedestal Shaft Coupling

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Bump, just the once.

 

[pvb]

I haven't a clue. I'd have expected it to be Whitlock, but not seen anything like it. From the look of it, the designer didn't want it to fail easily!

 

[Bilgediver]

If you remove the end cap at the wheel end then the shaft might come out complete with the drive bevel and as this is where the problem might be .

With the wheel shaft of the box will be free to move around to check the other shaft is free. You may also be able to see how the shaft is secured to the
bevel gear.

A friend with a Westerly Vulcan had similar problems but a different box and it was seized ball bearings. In this case the ball bearings were replaced with synthetic bushes. However totally sealed bearings might also give improved life. I expect the gears are running in grease if there are no fill and level holes for oil.

Taking the steering wheel off might make it easier.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Found the problem. I unbolted the couplings at the cockpit locker bevel box and the pedestal is very smooth, as is the big bevel box with tiller arm at the back. This presented a bit of a mystery as I was only left with what I thought was a tie rod running from the cockpit locker bevel box back to the bevel box with tiller arm and this was very stiff. Further craning my neck in awkward corners revealed an oval bearing housing, which meant that there had to be another universal joint behind the aft heads. After removing an access panel nothing was obvious so now I had to pull the Eber heater hose to the side. There it was, a universal joint, with zero signs of greasing but a grease nipple.

To replace this UJ I will have to dismantle the aft heads, which was going to happen next year, so I may try just greasing for the end of the season. The rust looks bad (it is) but at about 6:1 rust to metal loss (I think that is correct) I am not expecting much loss in strength. The shaft in the oval bearing housing is locked in place (grub screws) and rotates as expected, initially I thought it was spinning in the bearing housing but it is not. It may have a grease nipple at the back, within the heads void but I cant see that.

When I rotate the shaft by hand it is stiff but with additional stiffness every half turn which I think will coincide with the UJ at the biggest offset position. I am therefore hoping I just have to service the UJ and replace the bolts.

All this is is partly the result of shit windows leaking (the aft) heads window is right above this UJ I had all the window seals replaced but am having to deal with all the hidden consequences. Old boats eh!

At least I don't have to replace the expensive bits of the steering gear as the pillow block and UJs look to be standard components for general engineering purposes.

Bevel Box In Cockpit Locker

Flanged Pillow Block Bearing Between Cockpit Bevel Box and Aft Bevel Box With Tiller Arm

Hidden Universal Ball Joint

Bevel Box With Tiller Arm

 

[Deleted member 36384]

To close out the thread if any one is interested.

The tie rod was free to rotate after disconnection either side of the pillow block. It was really stiff and took a lot effort by hand to turn it, while everything else turned very easily. I used a HP grease gun to lubricate the UJ and that freed it up a bit but it was still very stiff. The pillow block has no grease nipple so I sprayed that with 3 in 1's release spray and then with spray on lithium grease using the small extension pipe to direct the flow where required. I left the whole lot for about 30 minutes and then tried to rotate the rod again. This time I could just rotate the rod with one hand very easily. Reconnected all the stern gear from the rudder to the wheel and it is very smooth indeed. I can now flick the wheel and it will free spin about 3/4 of a revolution, not bad for 4 bevel boxes and 4 x Universal Joints. Job done!

I still have no idea who made it the steering system but it looks like a Mathway Steering System and is identical to the LS model shown, perhaps with a custom binnacle. I dis ask them and they said they were not sure from the pictures if it was.

http://www.parsonsmathwaymarine.co.uk/mathway_steering.htm