Steel Boats.

[Samphire]

After some consideration and after years of timber and GRP boats I have recently bought a Van de Stadt Falco centre cockpit sloop,built by Morvoren Steelcraft in 1990.It is fully insulated with spray on foam and passed its survey with only a few minor problems.
Now question is pros and cons.Pros strength,free of leaks,no osmosis,cons maintenance.Several steel owners I have recently met have been fanatical in their support of the material,but it seems to me assuming well built and painted from day one there is still lots of potential for problems,corrosive,galvanic,mixed metals on deck fittings and fastenings etc.
Please tell me I'm not mad!
Samphire.


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[Mudplugger]

Samphire, Join the club, I've just started a Van de Stadt 40, built by Morvoren in 91, and although she has a brilliant paint job, still have to get it foamed. Worth getting a surveyor in at this early stage to keep a file open on the project, cos you not only get peace of mind, but guidance on material usage as well, and details of the dreaded RCD requirements.

<hr width=100% size=1>Tony W.

 

[Samphire]

Any idea if Morvoren are still in business?They had a good reputation and our new purchase is structurally excellent,had an ultrasound done and .1mm was max wastage.Only seroius problem we have found is oval hollow section tow rail is corroding from the inside out.Was thinking of filling it with epoxy resin but at 80ft long it could get pricy,any ideas?
Samphire.

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[ean_p]

The best idea is to stop worrying....the material is the best boat building material bar none......maintenance will be less than timber and not a great deal more than grp.....keep on top of it and keep an eye on the 2 foot either side of the stem/keel bar all the way through inside as if its to rust this is where it is likely to be.....if the worst does happen....cut it out and weld a bit more in...simple. as to toe rail....if it really is rusting inside then the main problem is to remove rust as rust breeds rust ....to fill the void use 'closed cell foam' but make sure that it is truly closed cell or it will just make matters worse. Voids like that are really to be avoided at all costs as are sharp edges and corners and places where water can stand. Use good paint and prepare the surface well....try not to polish the surface as the paints need a good 'key'. Most important....enjoy!!

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[BigART]

My wife and myself are in the process of buying a steel sloop (Valauris Petit Prince - ever heard of them - we hadn't neither) for a long term trip on the basis of strength, watertightness, etc. Having read plenty of stories of floating containers and steel vessels being towed, slightly scratched, off reefs having been pounded for days, we made a decision to go for steel. I am sure it is the right one.

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[AndrewB]

I've owned a steel boat for 7 years, and sailed on many others.

The positives have been mentioned, and I've fully benefitted from the toughness which, incidentally, allows a steel boat to risk going where a fin-keel GRP yacht wouldn't dare, and so adds much to cruising unfamiliar and possibly not well charted waters. Another thing I like is that it is much safer than GRP in an electrical storm.

There are three main problems.

1. Steel is heavy. As a result yachts tend to be slow and sometimes not very good sailers, specially if designed to provide the same volume of accomodation of modern lightweight GRP cruisers.

2. There can be a stability problem, for the same reason. Some designs are notorious. Beware those yachts with built up decks or substantial top-hamper, specially where it was a 'design modification' by the builder. A good steel design will sit deep in the water.

3. Maintenance. Modern epoxy finishes mean this is oh-so-easy at first, but somewhere around 12-15 years the original finish will start to break down, and rust will appear. Actually the time varies a lot depending on the quality of steel used and the original finish. When it does, steel yachts become high maintenance. Rust tends to start behind fittings and in the more inaccessible places internally, causing removal and access difficulties. It is possible to grit-blast the entire hull and epoxy it back to new, but this is a huge task specially on the inside. There is also a practical problem that many marinas and yards do not like steel maintenance work undertaken near GRP yachts.

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[DeeGee]

What about this special form of steel, is it Corten? I have seen refs to it, but never really figured out what it is. Something like anodized aluminium?

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[AndrewB]

Corten.

Don't know a lot about it. It's supposed to be highly rust resistant and stronger than mild steel, but less easy to work and more expensive. You see a lot of sculptures made in the stuff - the bare metal forms a surface layer of rust which effectively protects underneath, but looks a bit of a mess though.

Yachts have been made of it for about 25 years now, but I have heard criticisms. Because it requires continued exposure to air to maintain the protective layer, I've heard it said that when painted it is just as susceptible to rusting. But Corten yachts I've seen do seem to look good.

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[Mudplugger]

Samphire, Couldn't make contact with Morvoron Shipyard, but somewhere? I had a reply from John T. who was the MD, at the time mine was built. Have just had a look thru 'Old' Emails, but couldnt find contact address. Anita @ Van de Stadt Design. may be able to help, found them very helpful & understanding....If you want to talk at any time I'm on 07977289905. By the way where are you building.

<hr width=100% size=1>Tony W.

 

[Samphire]

Thanks for the offer and ph no,we are in SW Ireland .Yes, I think Morvoren are gone...... .Mine was built in 1990 and did a circumnavigation with RAF Tradewinds Rally in I think 1995/96.Original paintwork is good on topsides,underwater and interior,but deck is a problem,particularly bulwarks just along the weld under the toe rail.Have bought a small sand blaster which is working
really well on localised areas , only £126.00.Does 25kg an hour.if I was doing whole boat I would get the professionals in.
Am pretty happy on the whole with the decision to buy steel,for many of the reasons discussed on this thread,but when picking bits of shot out of the bed one wonders!!
Samphire

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[BigART]

"Have bought a small sand blaster which is working
really well on localised areas , only £126.00.Does 25kg an hour."

What make? Who from?

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[Samphire]

Re Sandblaster,saw it advertised in Landrover Owner International mag.They have a website www.blastitclean.com .Company is called Ace Engineering Products,The Forge,Ousden,Newmarket CB8 8TR Ph/Fax 01638 500255
Samphire

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[chippie]

A lot of Pacific cruisers like steel because of its strength. I've met a couple that have had a brush with a reef that had left little more than a dent that would have been a full scale disaster story in any other material.

Some of these world cruiser types become pretty adept at using a welder if they have had the boat a long time. The small sandblaster sounds like a good idea.

In many overseas locales welding skills are available where boatbuilding skills arent.

Because of weight issues steel seems best suited to boats over 35'

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[DeeGee]

Re: Corten.

This thread is principally about steel boats, but I looked at the French Ovni when at the LBS... I quite liked what I saw, and the idea of no painting on topsides looks v attractive.

I have a feeling that I read something detrimental about their stability some time ago?

On Corten, have YM done a review of boats made of it? They should, it seems the sort of thing more relevant than some of their garbage. ;-)

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[Jacket]

Re: Corten.

From their stability curve, Ovni's appear to be almost as happy floating upside down as they do the right way up.

From what I know about Corten its not really suitable for yachts. In the 70's it was used in may large american buildings, and got rave reviews. As a result, it was used in a few UK buildings, which all rusted away within 20 years.

This is because corten does corrode, just slowly. The amercan buildings used massive chunks of the stuff, so the fact that a few mm corrodes of the surface every decade is neither here nor there. The UK buildings used it for cladding, so it was only 4 or 5 mm thick, and quickly corroded through.

Given yacht hulls are only thin, I'd imagine they wouldn't last all that long.

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[DeeGee]

Re: Corten.

And yet, I believe, a considerable number of yachts have been built from Corten. Do you have any refs for its downside behaviour?

Re Ovni: yes, I seem to have heard that their stability curve is not so hot, what is the AVS? Mind you, like so many pleasure boats, their initial form stability is so high, that they start pretty stiff, eh?

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[AndrewB]

Re: Corten.

There is a damning description <A target="_blank" HREF=http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/1999-July/012487.html>HERE</A>.

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[Jacket]

Re: Corten.

Yes, there's a number in the professional journals. If you're interested I can dig them out.

I think that most of the boats built of Corten have been painted, so that effectively its treated the same as normal steel. the whole point of Corten, for the purpose that it's produced for, is that it should need no protective coating. So you're paying a lot of money for something thats only marginally better for boat building.

I think the Ovni's AVS is around 105 - and thats for the 38. I dread to think what the smaller boats are like. Yes, they probably start off pretty stiff, but having twice been knocked down to 90 degrees, I always take AVS fairly seriously!

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[DeeGee]

Re: Corten.

Hmm, yes, I think that the OVNI has water ballast, and that accounts for their AVS. Pity, that, they look nice boats otherwise, and v well built, considering they are French ;-))

Re: Corten.
AndrewB has posted a ref, which I think answers my question, so don't waste any more time on it, thanks. My interest is only en passant, not deeply serious.

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[Vasco]

My first ( and only , to the day) boat was a 33 feet steel sloop. 6 years and 80 000 miles later , on all sorts of plastic boats, I 'm still working for the day when I'll have my own boat again. I'm not sure about many things about that boat , but one: she will be made of steel.

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