Staylok Type Fittings?

[Dougal]

Does anyone have experience of fitting these on small diameter rigging?
My replacement, 2nd hand mizzen mast is too tall. My plan is cut off sections from the top and the base. That seems easy enough.
I would then like to rig this myself using Stay-Loks or similar. The rigging will only be 4mm and 5mm.
What is the likelihood of correctly fitting these without the use of a vice?

 

[yachtorion]

Does anyone have experience of fitting these on small diameter rigging?
My replacement, 2nd hand mizzen mast is too tall. My plan is cut off sections from the top and the base. That seems easy enough.
I would then like to rig this myself using Stay-Loks or similar. The rigging will only be 4mm and 5mm.
What is the likelihood of correctly fitting these without the use of a vice?

I tried them on 4mm, it was a bit hit and miss for me. I think with a bit more practice and patience I'd have been fine... the most important thing seems to be DO NOT use cutters to shorten the wire, you will never get it to sit right in the sta-lok. You need to rig up a wooden block with a hole and a slot. You feed the wire through the hole, then run a hacksaw down the slot to cut the wire without crushing it. If you try and shortcut on this you will fail..... I knackered a couple of terminals jamming them with crushed wire - expensive mistake.

You don't need a vice, a couple of adjustable spanners is fine.

 

[wklein]

Staloks are pretty easy to do especially in smaller sizes, once you get up to 16mm Dyform it gets pretty tricky. I think you will have more problems than you think with adapting through. What make is the new spar?

 

[wklein]

Angle grinder is the easiest way of cutting the wire

 

[Dougal]

I've used this method before to cut rigging, but was later told by a rigger, that the heat from the grinder, work hardens the stainless rigging ends, making it brittle! It certainly turns it blue.

Angle grinder is the easiest way of cutting the wire

 

[Dougal]

What make is the new spar?

Not really sure why it matters, but its an old 'Marco Polo' mast & boom.

 

[wklein]

I've used this method before to cut rigging, but was later told by a rigger, that the heat from the grinder, work hardens the stainless rigging ends, making it brittle! It certainly turns it blue.

Can't imagine it would cause a problem the last 5mm or so doesn't do anything.

 

[pcatterall]

Its easy after the first couple of goes! I use Norseman and I first used it to fit guard wires. Its good to have some spare cones and fittings in your spares box for emergency repairs, a good technique to master.

 

[vyv_cox]

I've used this method before to cut rigging, but was later told by a rigger, that the heat from the grinder, work hardens the stainless rigging ends, making it brittle! It certainly turns it blue.

Ah riggers! I see more nonsense quoted by them than almost any other trade. Shrouds are made from 300 series stainless steel that is not hardenable by heat treatment, regardless of the actual grade. In the annealed condition 300 series is pretty weak stuff but it is work hardenable (= strengthened) by cold drawing through a die, reducing its cross sectional area by about 3%. When this material is cut with a grinder it may reach red heat, which anneals it back to its original, soft condition. So the effect of cutting with a grinder is actually the opposite, it softens it.

Stalocks are quite easy, especially in smaller sizes. My guard wires are 4 mm. In bigger sizes I find Norseman far more difficult than Stalock due to the design of the fitting. It's a male/female thing.

 

[Dougal]

Thanks folks. As always, I very much appreciate the help here. Regardless of what those other folk say, I don't believe it - I think you're a great bunch;-)))

 

[Dougal]

Which type of Sta Lok terminal is best suited to replace this simple eye?
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt30/dougal95/Spreader Base - Copy.jpg

 

[Yngmar]

Which type of Sta Lok terminal is best suited to replace this simple eye?
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt30/dougal95/Spreader Base - Copy.jpg

An eye of the appropriate wire size. Make sure the eye-hole fits your existing clevis pin: http://www.stalok.com/p-359-sta-lok-eye.aspx

The generic term for these fittings is "swageless" by the way. Sta-Lok makes both swaged and swageless fittings, so just calling them Sta-Lok is a bit confusing. There's Petersen (Hi-MOD) swageless fittings as well, which are a further development of the Norseman design, with a crown to prevent the issue with wires crossing when tightening. They're in my opinion the easiest to assemble yourself and require no sealant (Norseman did, or at least recommended it).

Local rigger cuts all of his wires with a battery angle grinder and no indications of rigs falling down

 

[Kelpie]

Slight thread drift... what's the conventional wisdom on reusing swageless fittings? I need to make up new standing rigging for my boat and it has some swageless terminals already. I don't know how old they are. Presumably if I put in new cones I can reuse them and they are unlikely to become the weakest link in the rig?

 

[yachtorion]

Slight thread drift... what's the conventional wisdom on reusing swageless fittings? I need to make up new standing rigging for my boat and it has some swageless terminals already. I don't know how old they are. Presumably if I put in new cones I can reuse them and they are unlikely to become the weakest link in the rig?

Depends on the fitting. All are reusable, but some brands (e.g. Sta-Lok) suggest replacing the cones. The Petersen Hi-Mod ones say you can re-use the whole thing unless there is any deformation of the cone.

I hadn't heard of the Petersen ones so I looked them up - found this video on youtube. I'm VERY sold. Looks loads easier than the Sta-Loks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdxqV2e3CO8

 

[30boat]

Thanks folks. As always, I very much appreciate the help here. Regardless of what those other folk say, I don't believe it - I think you're a great bunch;-)))

I used them on my guardwires and had no problems whatsoever. The wires were cut with a thin cutting disk that barely warmed them.
Stalok advises the use of thread lock and I always do.I know of a mast that came down because the forestay's Stalok terminal had been assembled without thread lock.

 

[KellysEye]

We had Staloks on all our rigging including 4 mm wire on the mizzen. You don't need a vice just spread the wire around the cone and tighten the fitting, it's really easy.

 

[30boat]

We had Staloks on all our rigging including 4 mm wire on the mizzen. You don't need a vice just spread the wire around the cone and tighten the fitting, it's really easy.

You still should disassemble after lightly tightening the fitting to ensure that there's no wire trapped in the slot.And also,as I said above ,apply threadlock to the threads.I also put some sealant on the other end.

 

[chewi]

I tried them on 4mm, it was a bit hit and miss for me. I think with a bit more practice and patience I'd have been fine... the most important thing seems to be DO NOT use cutters to shorten the wire, you will never get it to sit right in the sta-lok. You need to rig up a wooden block with a hole and a slot. You feed the wire through the hole, then run a hacksaw down the slot to cut the wire without crushing it. If you try and shortcut on this you will fail..... I knackered a couple of terminals jamming them with crushed wire - expensive mistake.

You don't need a vice, a couple of adjustable spanners is fine.

I have made up at least 14 Sta-lock swageless terminals altogether in 5mm wire for my mast and guard wires .
All have been really easy, needing no more than croppers to cut the wire clean and two 14mm spanners to fit the terminal.
10 yrs later all is still well. Two of them I undid to shorten the backstays and remake, again with no problems.
Maybe I was lucky.

 

[yachtorion]

I have made up at least 14 Sta-lock swageless terminals altogether in 5mm wire for my mast and guard wires .
All have been really easy, needing no more than croppers to cut the wire clean and two 14mm spanners to fit the terminal.
10 yrs later all is still well. Two of them I undid to shorten the backstays and remake, again with no problems.
Maybe I was lucky.

I'd go for unusually skilled or unusually good croppers. It was a total fail for me with my cheap croppers and IIRC the instructions mention that croppers are bad plan for that reason.

 

[Norman_E]

I've used this method before to cut rigging, but was later told by a rigger, that the heat from the grinder, work hardens the stainless rigging ends, making it brittle! It certainly turns it blue.

I wonder what discs the rigger used. I have some 1mm thick disks made for stainless steel and they cut wire with little heating. If wire turns blue it has been heated, but blue does not denote a very high temperature, and with a new thin disc the heating will be restricted to a few millimetres. Using an old thick disc, probably loaded with fragments of metal from other jobs, and blunted by them, will cause excessive heating.