Starting An Old Seagull

[Lakesailor]

I bought a boat last week with a good outboard and thrown in was a non-running Seagull.
He had been given it about 5 years ago as a non-runner and tried but failed to start it.

I cleaned and checked the plug and points and checked the fuel at the carb.
It still wasn't having it. So in line with my own advice I chucked a bit of fuel into the carb throat.

For all of you who claim it's not right, doesn't work etc..............enjoy.

( the sacrilege happens at 1 minute 45 secs)

​

 

[Tranona]

Standard practice! In the factory we used to squirt oil into the intake on new engines to get them away. Builds up compression by getting behind the rings. Useful also if engine has not been used for a while.

BTW don't run it too long in that small amount of water as it will not pick up cooling water. You need to check it flows and comes out of the hole in the power head.

 

[Lakesailor]

As you see I stopped it. There was more water in the bucket before I started pulling the cord!
I just couldn't be bothered to get the water butt (it's raining) and set it all up. The wheely bin is full as well.

Luckily the Seagull doesn't trash impellors in the same way as motors with rubber ones.

 

[Tranona]

Luckily the Seagull doesn't trash impellors in the same way as motors with rubber ones.

Yes, that was about point number 7 in my "why you should buy a Seagull" sales script!

 

[CreakyDecks]

That's how I used to have to start my 100E Anglia in winter! I used to get some funny looks in car parks because technology had moved on a bit when I got it as a 25 year old car.

 

[Burnham Bob]

when i was starting mine first time in the season, i'd dribble a bit of fuel down the plug hole

obviously same effect!

 

[Cymrogwyllt]

I once had a rover 2000 that would not start after a head change.
24V cured it after a few frantic turns on the starter.

 

[ProDave]

I was going to ask why it continued to run?

So to start with it wouldn't start, or even sound like it was firing.

Throw some fuel in and away it went.

I thought this trick just proved compression and spark was okay, so I would have expected it to fire, run for a shor while until the fuel you had thrown in had gone, then stop. Thus proving the engine and spark was basically okay but was not getting fuel.

So why did it continue running? It obviously WAS getting fuel, so why wouldn't it fire at all before?

 

[Lakesailor]

It's the magic of our universe.
It always happens. If you are sure you've got all the requirements, but it won't go, try that.
Maybe just pulling the cord won't provide enough venturi effect in the carb to get the fuel moving past the needle. Won't move the piston fast enough to provide enough compression. I don't know.
It's like towing a vehicle that won't start. Everything's there but not enough to spark up. Give it a tow and off it goes.

 

[Billjratt]

My question is - did it readily start again? (ie- is it fixed?)
I've used the same process with seagulls and old motorbikes in the past, but always rode home dreading the fact that the engine may stop and be equally difficult to restart in an embarrasing place. ( sitting at the lights revving in case it stopped!)
Was it water in the fuel/system that burned off? That's got to be my favourite seagull failure, as it's designed to collect water in the pipe from the bottom of the tank to the carb. I fitted a "T" piece in the last one - drained off the water into a wee jar and never looked back.

 

[Lakesailor]

No water. It was dry as a bone before I started on it and filled it with 1/2 litre of new fuel.
I didn't start it again as I am totally confident in it.

 

[DanTribe]

I used to do a similar trick with my Stuart Turner. A squirt of 3 in 1 down the plug hole often worked. If not a cap-full of petrol usually did.
Never blew myself up [hardly ever].

 

[electrosys]

Brilliant ! Never done this myself, or ever seen it done - until now.

As to why ? Well - it seems to me that chucking a teaspoonful of fuel in the carb intake is essentially no different than seriously choking the engine to give it a short burst of a very rich fuel/air mix. Plus there's no hanging around fannying about sucking fuel out of a tiny jet by vacuum.

And, when you think about it, unlike a 4-stroke, with a 2-stroke the fuel mix has a long way to go from carb to spark plug ... so heaving some fuel in really gives it a running start.

Yeah - but even so - it's still magic.


Ah - just remembered - some of the very early spark plugs had a tiny funnel attached to a small tube which ran down their sides into the combustion chamber - so some fuel could be directly injected into the chamber for starting.

 

[oldharry]

It's the magic of our universe.
It always happens. If you are sure you've got all the requirements, but it won't go, try that.
Maybe just pulling the cord won't provide enough venturi effect in the carb to get the fuel moving past the needle. Won't move the piston fast enough to provide enough compression. I don't know.
It's like towing a vehicle that won't start. Everything's there but not enough to spark up. Give it a tow and off it goes.

Happens with diesels too. I had a Bukh that had been in store for several years. Flattened two batteries trying to start it, never a squeak. I then gave it a shot of Easy Start (yes I know!). The poor thing was so shocked it leapt in to instant life, and always started on the button thereafter - without Easy start. Note 1 tin Easy Start for sale - used once.... actually not, as i dont approve of anyone using it normally.

However. towing a vehicle to start it has a scientific basis: The stater drops the battery voltage to around 8 -9 volts which weakens the spark. Towing turns the engine over and allows a full voltage spark to be generated which can make the difference if the spark is weak or the plugs in bad shape.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Mate of mine told me a trick that one of the old boys on the club had told him which is basically a "de-tuned" version of yours I think... soak a rag in some fuel and hold that in front of the carb when you're starting so that it's sucking in fuel rich air...

 

[fisherman]

The real mystery is the sound track, which indicates at 1.26 or so that it is midnight. ???

I remember two lads charging about the sea with a seagull which had no carburettor at all, they were squirting the fuel into the inlet port with a fairy liquid bottle. Not very economical, but then the fuel was only 17p a gallon.

I had an old lister twin cyl aircooled, SR 2 I think, which had oil injection plungers on the inlet manifold for starting. I was cleaning it down with a paint brush and petrol while it was running, passed the brush in front of the air inlet, that was interesting! Instead of easy start I would always use a gas blowtorch in the air inlet: one fishing boat I was on had a Baudouin 80HP three cylinder, we had to use burning echo sounder paper under the inlets to get it going. See that engine now as a museum piece on the old fishing boat in Douarnenenez.

 

[Lakesailor]

The real mystery is the sound track, which indicates at 1.26 or so that it is midnight. ???

I remember two lads charging about the sea with a seagull which had no carburettor at all, they were squirting the fuel into the inlet port with a fairy liquid bottle. Not very economical, but then the fuel was only 17p a gallon.
.

Ha ha. I thought that as well whilst I was putting some fuel into the plastic cup to throw at the engine. It was a Radio 4 programme in which they played a recording of an announcement on the news which was relevant to the programme.

I had a flathead Harley which had what amounted to a brass tube through which fuel flowed into the engine. It had the fiction of a float chamber but as far as I could see it was merely a reserve to allow a constant flow of fuel.
It did less than 15 mpg. (Fuel was 4/11d per gallon)

 

[ProDave]

A had an old generator with a briggs and stratton engine, and that would only ever start from cold if you put the palm of your hand over the air intake.

I always thought it must be some form of "super choke" and in the absence of any air, the extra suction got the fuel flowing.

 

[yellowspinnaker]

I am convinced that with a two stroke it could be residual oil partially obstructing the jets. Every time a two stroke stops there is fuel still in the carburettor. Even if you turn the fuel off and 'run the carb dry' there's still some left. Then the volatile stuff evaporates leaving an oily residue; oily and more viscous.

When you try to start the motor the airflow generated by the hand-turned motor just isn't enough to overcome the extra viscosity, the stuff doesn't want to flow or atomise.

But with the kick of a piston propelled by exploding petrol the pressures are greatly increased, the oily stuff gives and moves and fresh fuel gets through. Once rinsed through with fresh fuel the carburettor blockage is gone, the motor will start again.

This is, I suspect, a manifestation of the 'don't use old petrol' business, I don't think petrol; in days gone by was quite the same stuff, it behaved a little better back then..

 

[DanTribe]

Ha ha. I thought that as well whilst I was putting some fuel into the plastic cup to throw at the engine. It was a Radio 4 programme in which they played a recording of an announcement on the news which was relevant to the programme.

I had a flathead Harley which had what amounted to a brass tube through which fuel flowed into the engine. It had the fiction of a float chamber but as far as I could see it was merely a reserve to allow a constant flow of fuel.
It did less than 15 mpg. (Fuel was 4/11d per gallon)

That sounds a bit like the Alf Hagon fuel injector. Basically a tube with a drip feed and a butterfly. I never fitted one but friends who did said that they were great if you could always use full throttle, so not very handy for traffic!
Alf Hagon was a local hero when I was into bikes. A speedway and drag racing star, he had a local speed shop and just being able to speak to him earned you "cool" points.