Boatman
New member
Where did these and all the other maritime terms originate from historically?
We all know the "There's a little port left in the bottle" any others?
We all know the "There's a little port left in the bottle" any others?
Starboard, Port & Thwart
- Thread starter Boatman
- Start date
BarryD
New member
If Clive Cussler can be believed - the rudder on Viking long boats was always mounted so the tiller was to the right hand side allowing the helmsman a good view of the wind vane. This is "stjornbordi" in Norse, and from this we arrive at "starboard" for the right hand side of the vessel.
Well it would be a cracking answer on call my bluff.
Barry D.
Well it would be a cracking answer on call my bluff.
Barry D.
andrewhopkins
New member
I thought it was...
That the rudder was on the right and was the Steerboard so it became starboard over time. As the rudder was on the right, you had to tie up to the quay or port on the left side so it was the port side.
simple as that ? or not................
That the rudder was on the right and was the Steerboard so it became starboard over time. As the rudder was on the right, you had to tie up to the quay or port on the left side so it was the port side.
simple as that ? or not................
Stemar
Well-known member
Port used to be larbord. With the steering oar on the starboard, it was sensible to come alongside to larboard, which, as with so many things became traditional, even when central rudders took over.
This why, when people realised - eventually - that "Hard to larboard!" sounds far too much like "Hard to staboard!", with potentially embarrassing consequences, Port became the logical replacement.
I found this on http://viking.no/e/england/viking_words_2.htm#T:
thwart (n, vb) Transverseley, transverse. Ice þvert (adverse), Dan tvær (transverse), Swe tvär (across). As a noun in E it is used mainly of transverse panels across a ship or boat, including seats, with the associated maritime term 'athwart' standing for 'across'. In its original maritime usage it probably indicated a part of a ship's architecture which prevented (thwarted) the ingress of water or the movement of cargo. The SE verb 'to thwart…something' means to prevent something happening or put some obstacle in the way, as in 'they thwarted his plan to become president'.
This why, when people realised - eventually - that "Hard to larboard!" sounds far too much like "Hard to staboard!", with potentially embarrassing consequences, Port became the logical replacement.
I found this on http://viking.no/e/england/viking_words_2.htm#T:
thwart (n, vb) Transverseley, transverse. Ice þvert (adverse), Dan tvær (transverse), Swe tvär (across). As a noun in E it is used mainly of transverse panels across a ship or boat, including seats, with the associated maritime term 'athwart' standing for 'across'. In its original maritime usage it probably indicated a part of a ship's architecture which prevented (thwarted) the ingress of water or the movement of cargo. The SE verb 'to thwart…something' means to prevent something happening or put some obstacle in the way, as in 'they thwarted his plan to become president'.
chrisc
New member
Starboard is the norse Styrbord , the steering bord, or rudder, was always mounted on this
side.an early effort at standardisation
side.an early effort at standardisation
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
I'll go with steerboard = starboard. As for port. it's French for door (porte).
With the steering gear on the right hand side of the ship, it was sensible to tie up against quays left hand side to. So a door was cut in to the left hand side to allow sailor's doxies to come and go (and, I guess, less important ship's business to be conducted). This became the porte side (not to be confused with Port Said!).
So now we have starboard (steering side) and port (door side).
With the steering gear on the right hand side of the ship, it was sensible to tie up against quays left hand side to. So a door was cut in to the left hand side to allow sailor's doxies to come and go (and, I guess, less important ship's business to be conducted). This became the porte side (not to be confused with Port Said!).
So now we have starboard (steering side) and port (door side).
ianwright
New member
Thwart?
Ith what thaylors get on their thkin from handeling frogth and toadth.
Sorry, couldn't help it,,,,,,,,
IanW.
Vertue 203, Patience
Ith what thaylors get on their thkin from handeling frogth and toadth.
Sorry, couldn't help it,,,,,,,,
IanW.
Vertue 203, Patience
ChrisJ
New member
What about:
Painter, sheet, pintle, gudgeon?
Gun-whale is presumably obvious??
Painter, sheet, pintle, gudgeon?
Gun-whale is presumably obvious??
steffen
New member
Re: I thought it was...
The relation is the same in Dutch where it is called "stuurboord" and the helm or rudder is the "stuur".
The relation is the same in Dutch where it is called "stuurboord" and the helm or rudder is the "stuur".
G
Guest
Guest
Danish still uses the old terms: starbord is "styrbord" - "styr" meaning steer, and port is "bagbord" - "bag" meaning behind eller rear.
The reason is that the vikings mounted their steering oar in the starboard side of the boat, meaning that if the helmsman was turned in any particular direction, it was more likely to be towards the right.
Where port comes from I don't know...but it was once known as larboard, I think.
Isn't there an archaic expression - to steer and to port?
Lost in Denmark - a yachtsmans paradise!
The reason is that the vikings mounted their steering oar in the starboard side of the boat, meaning that if the helmsman was turned in any particular direction, it was more likely to be towards the right.
Where port comes from I don't know...but it was once known as larboard, I think.
Isn't there an archaic expression - to steer and to port?
Lost in Denmark - a yachtsmans paradise!
jamesjermain
Active member
Painter from old French penteur, a strong rope.
Sheet from old English sceata, the corner of a sail and/or middle low German Schote with an umlaut, a rope attached to a sail.
Pintle - wait for this one, its not for the squeemish - from the old English word pintel, meaning penis.
Gudgeon - not the obvious after the above description, but prosaicsally and, in my view doubtfully, from the old French goujon, from latin gulbia, meaning a chisel.
JJ
Sheet from old English sceata, the corner of a sail and/or middle low German Schote with an umlaut, a rope attached to a sail.
Pintle - wait for this one, its not for the squeemish - from the old English word pintel, meaning penis.
Gudgeon - not the obvious after the above description, but prosaicsally and, in my view doubtfully, from the old French goujon, from latin gulbia, meaning a chisel.
JJ
oldharry
Well-known member
And of course with the steering board on the right hand side, it makes sense for vessels on opposing courses to pass steering side to steering side - so the basis for the Col Regs which we still have. A boat approaching from port may not be visible to the steersman on the Starbd side, so he must give way.
Develop from that to 'How much Red Port is Left' for nav lights - the red light is showing on the side where the helmsman traditionally has the most obstructed view, while the green light shows that helmsman has a clear view - unless he has of course been using the port bottle and can see nothing anyway....
Develop from that to 'How much Red Port is Left' for nav lights - the red light is showing on the side where the helmsman traditionally has the most obstructed view, while the green light shows that helmsman has a clear view - unless he has of course been using the port bottle and can see nothing anyway....