Standing Rigging Question

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SeaStu1

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The boat is 29 years old, 20ft long and used for light cruising only in the Solent area. I have no knowledge of the previous history of the rigging and suspect it may be original or of some age. My own limited inspection shows that some of the bottle screws are seized and there are no broken strands of wire from what l can see but that is the limit of what l can do.

From hereon l am considering using the services of a rigger but l have no previous experience of using one. A few questions, do they come to you or do you go to them? Do they offer an inspection service to advise beforehand what work is required?

Alternatively, how complicated would this be to do myself?

Regards.
 
SeaStu1 said:
The boat is 29 years old, 20ft long and used for light cruising only in the Solent area. I have no knowledge of the previous history of the rigging and suspect it may be original or of some age. My own limited inspection shows that some of the bottle screws are seized and there are no broken strands of wire from what l can see but that is the limit of what l can do.

From hereon l am considering using the services of a rigger but l have no previous experience of using one. A few questions, do they come to you or do you go to them? Do they offer an inspection service to advise beforehand what work is required?

Alternatively, how complicated would this be to do myself?

Regards.
Click to expand...

I contacted three "professional" riggers to look at the rigging on Magic. Not one of them even got back to me. In the end I went into the chandler at Emsworth who quoted around £200-300 for full replacement which I intend to do as soon as funding permits.
In the meantime, give it a good tug and if it doesn't snap go sailing :)
 
SeaStu1 said:
From hereon l am considering using the services of a rigger but l have no previous experience of using one. A few questions, do they come to you or do you go to them? Do they offer an inspection service to advise beforehand what work is required?
Click to expand...

Riggers will come to your boat, inspect the rigging, and advise what might need doing. They'll quote before doing any work. There may be a small fee for the initial inspection. Why not phone one or two local ones and ask them? The fact that you're asking the question on here suggests it might not be a DIY job for you. Rigging is fairly crucial stuff...
 
I usually take the wire I want to replace off the mast and measure it. I draw a little diagram showing the size and type of wire and the end fittings I want and then take it to a local chandler - many have a rigging service. This way, I can have the new wire a little longer or shorter or adapt it to a new bottle screw if necessary. I try to replace one or two wires every year - this means that all the wires get replaced in approximately ten years. I guess you'll be doing all of yours in one go, though!

The wire for your 20 foot boat might be 3 mm and I think you have the choice at that size between Talurit eye splices or swaged end fittings. I think they are both best left to the professionals!

Neil
 
AngusMcDoon said:
A good value way of doing it is get the mast down, remove all the rigging, bundle the whole lot off to an industrial riggers like S3I, refit it yourself, lob the mast back up, and if uncertain get a rigger to come and tension it up.

http://www.s3i.co.uk/
Click to expand...

That sounds very sensible. It will also allow you to make your own inspection of the mast and its fittings, services sheaves, generally clean and polish, change nav light bulbs, etc, all at ground level.
 
We rerigged Nereide (28ft) a couple of years ago. We had it done by a rigger, but if I was doing it again I'd do it myself. A friend did his (30ft) himself by removing shrouds and stays one by one, taking up the strain with an appropriate halyard and taking the old one along to the chandlers to get the new one made up. I'd suggest this approach for you - it's not a difficult subject to learn. I'd also suggest un-seizing your bottle screws, with generous applications of WD40 and elbow grease, so that you can assess their condition. In general in a 20ft boat that is not used in extreme conditions (regattas) "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is a reasonable maxim, but it's a good idea to check if it is broke or not.
 
It should be easy to do yourself on a 20-footer. I have 3mm rigging on my 16 footer and from memory pay about £1/m for the wire and £5/end for spliced eyes at my local chandler. You can do the eyes yourself if you have access to a suitable press. My local gliding club has one for winch launch cables, but doesn't have small enough dies for 3mm cable.

When I got the boat in had a complete set of rigging made by a rigger at a cost of £180 or so, copied from the originals. Every single stay was wrong, and they binned the patterns. I didn't pay. Moral: keep what you have till the new ones fit
 
Firstly yes the rigging wire needs to be replaced. Not on condition but on age. As said the cheapest approach is to take the wires off (label them) then take them to a rigger and have them duplicated. Any vist to your boat will cost. Before you do so however I would suggest that you remove and get the turnscrews (bottle screws) working. This can require a lot of oil WD40 or whatever and possibly a lot of heat. Beware the SS screws can snap off easily. If you are unlucky then you will have to replace some or all of them. If you have to replace them then type of end fitting and oveerall length may change. Before you do anything just check to see if any wires need to be longer or shorter to ideally bring the turnscrews into mid range.
Around here it is the chandlers (not the national chain ones) who cna make up the rigging. Mostly there is a choice of a thimble and swage making a ring for a clevis pin to go through or a swaged on screw which becomes part of the turnscrew. You need to get the right thread and size. good luck olewill
 
Zen Zero said:
We rerigged Nereide (28ft) a couple of years ago. We had it done by a rigger, but if I was doing it again I'd do it myself. A friend did his (30ft) himself by removing shrouds and stays one by one, taking up the strain with an appropriate halyard and taking the old one along to the chandlers to get the new one made up. I'd suggest this approach for you - it's not a difficult subject to learn. I'd also suggest un-seizing your bottle screws, with generous applications of WD40 and elbow grease, so that you can assess their condition. In general in a 20ft boat that is not used in extreme conditions (regattas) "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is a reasonable maxim, but it's a good idea to check if it is broke or not.
Click to expand...
OK on a 28 ft boat where you can go up to the masthead, but you often get wet (or injured as something breaks) if you try going up the mast on the OPs 20-footer. Get a couple pf strong people to help and take the mast down, or rig sheers and do it on your own. Take the wires and bottlescrews to a rigger and get them to Talurit splice new ends on new wire. Tens of thousands of small boats have used cheap Talurits rather than expensive swaged terminals for many, many years. Lanyards were good enough for Columbus and Magellan. On a 20 ft boat You could also use lanyards rather than bottlescrews if you like - cheaper and simpler.
 
jwilson said:
OK on a 28 ft boat where you can go up to the masthead, but you often get wet (or injured as something breaks) if you try going up the mast on the OPs 20-footer. Get a couple pf strong people to help and take the mast down, or rig sheers and do it on your own. Take the wires and bottlescrews to a rigger and get them to Talurit splice new ends on new wire. Tens of thousands of small boats have used cheap Talurits rather than expensive swaged terminals for many, many years. Lanyards were good enough for Columbus and Magellan. On a 20 ft boat You could also use lanyards rather than bottlescrews if you like - cheaper and simpler.
Click to expand...

Sounds like good advice to me. Kindred Spirit (24') used talurit eyes on all her standing rigging, so I'd be quite happy with them on a 20-footer. Only thing is that they need fork/fork bottlescrews, and the OP may have something else. The rigging shop will be able to advise, anyway.

Kindred Spirit had a lanyard for her forestay; not sure why as all the shrouds were bottlescrews, but it certainly worked OK for us.

Pete
 
lustyd said:
I contacted three "professional" riggers to look at the rigging on Magic. Not one of them even got back to me. In the end I went into the chandler at Emsworth who quoted around £200-300 for full replacement which I intend to do as soon as funding permits.
In the meantime, give it a good tug and if it doesn't snap go sailing :)
Click to expand...

+1 on the Chandlery they just did mine for about £500, that included dropping/raising the mast and a few other bits and pieces* - mine's a Hurley 20...

* 4mm backstay (with s/s plate and twin stays below), twin lowers and masthead each side, 6mm forestay, new bottle screws throughout, re-wired the mast while it was down...

PS. Also got quotes from Chris Holman (much the same price, maybe a little more, but he's the other end of the harbour from me) and Barry the Rigger at Thornham (who was twice as much)
 
Just another thought to the OP. Boats often have a turnscrew in the forestay. This is totally unnecessary if you are happy with the mast rake. Vertical or just slightly raked aft is normal. You may be able to use the forestay turnscrew to replace one of those that are seized. Obviously the forestay needs to be a bit longer with no turnscrew.
Likewise the backstay turnscrew could be dispesed with. However you will need some sort of adjustment. 2 methods can be used. One involves a pair of plates with sheaves mounted which can ber hauled down (by a tackle) to pull together 2 wires of a split backstay. (where backstay forks to 2 wires aboout 1 metre above the deck. ) Another method is where the back stay is split again but there is a sheave (pulley) set in the main abckstay and a wire or rope runs through is from one side of the transom to the other one side being fixed and the other side having a 4 purchase tackle and cleat. On any boat used for racing the backstay is always made easily adjustable. good luck olewill
 
I don't think that anybody has mentioned Stalok - http://www.stalok.com/ or Norseman terminals - http://www.pyacht.com/norseman.htm
(the Norseman page is American, but it has a nice description re how to install them)

They are quite probably more expensive than having the ends of the wires swaged or spliced, but they are a good alternative.
I bought a couple of Staloks recently for putting new ends on to 4 mm guardwires (where the forks on the ends of the swaged on turnbuckles had fractured).
 
Bajansailor said:
I don't think that anybody has mentioned Stalok - http://www.stalok.com/ or Norseman terminals - http://www.pyacht.com/norseman.htm
(the Norseman page is American, but it has a nice description re how to install them)

They are quite probably more expensive than having the ends of the wires swaged or spliced, but they are a good alternative.
I bought a couple of Staloks recently for putting new ends on to 4 mm guardwires (where the forks on the ends of the swaged on turnbuckles had fractured).
Click to expand...

My roller reefing has Stalok built in, and it's definitely as secure as swaging. I would add though that despite looking as though it can later be disassembled, it cannot. Even if you don't want to keep any of the bits.
 
Take down the mast. Measure all the standing rigging. Send off the measurements to ZSpars UK. The prices suffered by posters on this forum suggest that they're spendthrift.

A complete set of standing rigging from ZDiffusion's rigging subsidiary came to €230 for a 13.5m 3/4 rigged mast.

I'd suggest you replace with chrome-plated bronze for all the bottle-screws - stainless seizes, fatigue fractures and corrodes.

Borrow, from your local library Adlard Coles "Rigging" to tell you how to put your mast back up again.
 
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