ST2000 autopilot positioning

rwoofer

rwoofer

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About to have one fitted. If it is attached the recommended distance from the pintle, it seems to hardly turn the rudder when on max/min reach. Installer is suggesting putting it closer than the Raymarine recommended distance. Is there any problem in doing this?

the boat is only 20 foot, so the tiller is considerably over specced.
 
The pilot is designed to steer a straight course, not make violent manoeuvres. How far do you move the tiller to stay on a straight course?

The point is that it should never need to make full-deflection rudder movements.

If you're currently sailing with the tiller up under your chin when hand-steering, you need to adjust the sail trim to have less weather helm. You'll go faster too. On our first boat we had major weather helm in the first year as we had set the mast up with too much rake (traditional tabernacle, hadn't put tallow under the mast foot). The pilot struggled in a breeze, but worked much better in subsequent years with the boat better balanced.

If you move the pilot closer to the pivot point, you are asking it to push harder. If the boat is much smaller than the pilot is specced for, maybe this is ok. But personally, I'd put it where the instructions say. The recommended dimensions have been the same for about thirty years, they must be getting something right.

Pete
 
If I was installing it I would have simply put it in the correct position, however the installer believes there is not enough throw at the correct position and is therefore suggesting closer. He kind of convinced me, so that is why I wanted to check with other peoples experiences. Sounds like I should insist it is installed as per instructions even if it might look like it doesn't move the tiller much.
 
Not quite on thread but when my simrad gave up just before i left for my sh trip round uk this year mailspeed replaced it with an st2000 ( excellent service from mailspeed but do not even try to deal with simrad direct they are complete muppets)
Unfortunately i cannot seem to get it to steer a course as good as my last 2 simrads
Yesterday it went up to 70 degrees off course going up lock ness & is proving a real pain to calibrate
In the canal it suddenly went haywire. It worked for 10 mins the began course changing which got more & more violent until i had to turn it off for fear of hitting the bank
No matter what i do with rudder trim & gain i cannot get it to steer straight
It works for a few minutes then suddenly decides to sail off on a different direction. Normally about 20 degrees before i correct it but yesterday it went up to 70 degrees off course
All the above whilst motoring
I might add that i only have it hooked up to 12 volts for ordinary steering without input from other units i have not even considered connecting the NMEA yet as i can see even further agro
Anyone any experience of this or tips how to correct please?
As for tiller movement i just swopped it for my simrad & it all fitted ok
 
Daydream believer said:
Not quite on thread but when my simrad gave up just before i left for my sh trip round uk this year mailspeed replaced it with an st2000 ( excellent service from mailspeed but do not even try to deal with simrad direct they are complete muppets)
Unfortunately i cannot seem to get it to steer a course as good as my last 2 simrads
Yesterday it went up to 70 degrees off course going up lock ness & is proving a real pain to calibrate
In the canal it suddenly went haywire. It worked for 10 mins the began course changing which got more & more violent until i had to turn it off for fear of hitting the bank
No matter what i do with rudder trim & gain i cannot get it to steer straight
It works for a few minutes then suddenly decides to sail off on a different direction. Normally about 20 degrees before i correct it but yesterday it went up to 70 degrees off course
All the above whilst motoring
I might add that i only have it hooked up to 12 volts for ordinary steering without input from other units i have not even considered connecting the NMEA yet as i can see even further agro
Anyone any experience of this or tips how to correct please?
As for tiller movement i just swopped it for my simrad & it all fitted ok
Click to expand...
I have had similar problems when operating the radio or mobile phone, have you anything else that would affect its compass?
 
rb_stretch said:
If I was installing it I would have simply put it in the correct position, however the installer believes there is not enough throw at the correct position and is therefore suggesting closer. He kind of convinced me, so that is why I wanted to check with other peoples experiences. Sounds like I should insist it is installed as per instructions even if it might look like it doesn't move the tiller much.
Click to expand...

rb_stretch,

well if the throw really does seem restricted, it will have the power to go closer to the pivot - or there's something very wrong !

Mine deals with quite big quartering seas, the lot, but the boat is quite well balanced.
 
Seajet said:
rb_stretch,

well if the throw really does seem restricted, it will have the power to go closer to the pivot - or there's something very wrong !

Mine deals with quite big quartering seas, the lot, but the boat is quite well balanced.
Click to expand...

The Jeanneau Sun 2000 is quite dinghy-like and it is easy for the rig to overpower the rudder, so you do have to also man the mainsheet when it is gusty. This was why I was sympathetic to the point of needing more throw.

I don't want to mess up the reaction times etc, but I'm assuming that the autopilot must learn to some degree how much boats respond to tiller movements. It seems like I might need to give Raymarine themselves a call.
 
rb_stretch said:
If I was installing it I would have simply put it in the correct position, however the installer believes there is not enough throw at the correct position and is therefore suggesting closer. He kind of convinced me, so that is why I wanted to check with other peoples experiences. Sounds like I should insist it is installed as per instructions even if it might look like it doesn't move the tiller much.
Click to expand...

Perhaps worth a check that the "per instructions" position really has been measured right. If it has been, it will move the tiller exactly the same amount as every other boat. If your man has installed tillerpilots before, this is the amount of movement he should expect. If he hasn't, why should you listen to him? :)

Pete
 
rb_stretch said:
I'm assuming that the autopilot must learn to some degree how much boats respond to tiller movements.
Click to expand...

The below-decks pilots with separate brain boxes do, but I don't think the same applies to the tillerpilots. They don't have a calibration/sea-trial mode as far as I remember.

Pete
 
prv said:
Perhaps worth a check that the "per instructions" position really has been measured right. If it has been, it will move the tiller exactly the same amount as every other boat. If your man has installed tillerpilots before, this is the amount of movement he should expect. If he hasn't, why should you listen to him? :)

Pete
Click to expand...
from memory my a/h travel`s 25 deg either side of centre
 
rb_stretch said:
The Jeanneau Sun 2000 is quite dinghy-like and it is easy for the rig to overpower the rudder, so you do have to also man the mainsheet when it is gusty. This was why I was sympathetic to the point of needing more throw.

I don't want to mess up the reaction times etc, but I'm assuming that the autopilot must learn to some degree how much boats respond to tiller movements. It seems like I might need to give Raymarine themselves a call.
Click to expand...

In that case I might well place it a little further aft; it has plenty of power and reaction time.

All the same might be a case of trimming the main a little sympathetically to the AP, if nothing else but to save a bit of battery power and I doubt any real speed would be lost.

I was under the impression it does indeed have a ' learn the boat ' self calibration, at least to some degree, but I may have just fallen for sales BS !
 
Spoke to Raymarine themselves and there are no hard and fast rules here. Their basic recommendation is to stay within 2 inches of the dimensions suggested in the manual, so perfectly acceptable to go closer to the rudder axis. Any closer than that and you are in trial and error territory. Very impressed with their service and knowledge, because I was half-expecting "computer says no" response.
 
Daydream believer said:
The plotter & the hand held vhf are next to it but i moved them & no difference
I also turned off the ais transmit & echomax which are on the transom to see if that did it but no
Good suggestion though
Click to expand...

Mine does similar things occasionally, if I do not have my mobile in my pocket it helps. The compass does seem sensitive, my solution having raymarine wind gear is to connect it to that, then she steers better.

Connecting the NMEA is not difficult (I managed it), depends on how much you use waypoint's etc but I find it has its uses. You just need to calibrate the compass properly it works much better when you do not have 20 degree error that you do not care about as you just hit auto. As it confuses the hell out of it until the XTE settles down, you guessed how I can give this advice :D...

Mine is used on a 35' 3/5 tonner and I do reach full through from time to time but that's just me sailing her badly :D. Wind astern with a bit of see it will maintain course but I can do it much better, then I am right on the limit for the spec but the next stage is kind of expensive!
 
My first AP, a Mini Seacourse, had a good sense of humour; whenever the voltage dropped below a certain level it died with a dramatic ' urgh ' putting the helm hard over ...:rolleyes:
 
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