St Albans Head & Portland Race

Stemar

Stemar

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First passages loom for both of these. The almanac's on the boat, so I can't check what info it has, and I'm getting nervous.

I know there are inside passages. What I don't know is how close in and in what sea & tide states they're viable. The boat's a Snapdragon 24 and crew consists of an abject coward (me) and someone who's disabled with back trouble (SWMBO), so heroics are NOT on the menu!

Your collective wisdom please.
 
St Albans is anything within about 100' of the shore.
Portland is very close in - rule of thumb is if kids on shore can hit you with stones, you are about the right distance off ie. very close.

Both are viable up to a F4 or F5. Anything more than that, and personally I'd think of being way outside. Something like 5 miles for St Albans, and at least 7 miles for Portland - the effects of the races extend much further out than you'd expect. Even in the inshore passages, you are better off avoiding wind against tide if at all possible to make things as comfortable as possible.

Having said that, both can be just like millponds at times, and aren't always as scarey as people imagine.
 
Re: inshore \"channel\"

Although I'm a bit of a sceptic on its actual existence, I'm assured that "close in" means no more than a hundred yards. (Recent threads on SB.) From experience, you definitely don't want to be more than 1/2 mile off in any strong winds, the waves get quite big but under normal cruising conditions just go for it. The band of rough water is not very wide, and is nothing to fear in a boat like yours.
 
st albans head you can go in very close - but you only need to go in closer than the waves start (clearly defined line!) or just stay 5 miles off.
portland is a different matter............inshore is tight and offshore is less distance off so go round - only issue is if you are coming out of Weymouth when it'squite a detour so aim for slack on the race - here's info from a local charter skipper -
The Portland Race

At one and a half hours before high water Weymouth the flood tide travels from west to east. Travelling eastwards through Lyme Bay it eventually hits Portland and is turned southwards gathering speed as it does so because of all the water from the west piling up against Portland and being deflected southwards.


As the tide rushes past Portland Bill it is heading due south but immediately hits the east going tide that has not been influenced by Portland. It therefore very soon starts to bend slightly eastwards running south, south by east, south east by east then south east.

Within a quarter of mile of Portland, with the sea often flat calm because of the power of the flood tide, the water hits the Portland Ledge (you must imagine Portland continues under water for another half mile and the seabed rises from 90' to 30'). Like in a river when it shallows rapidly, the speed of the water speeds up even more. It hits the underwater 'wall' and is deflected upwards to the surface as there is too much water to stay calm over this vast submerged barrier. The first three waves of The Race in full flood can be very dangerous and is, 90 percent of the time, very impressive. The first three waves break the power and slow the water so that it tumbles and becomes confused. It will be traveling at anything up to 5 knots now. This gradually eases and the sea becomes calmer as it travels towards the west Shambles Buoy where, at high water on a spring tide, it will still be at 4 knots. A back eddy builds up (which is why The Shambles is formed) and bends in an anti clockwise direction to travel back along parallel to Portland's east side. This back eddy meets the south going stream at Bill Point, causes further confusion and then also gets deflected southwards to add yet more speed and quantity of water. If there is a cross swell or a south west, south or east wind then further friction is caused making the seas more confused and more unpredictable. With all this going on, you must be very careful about when you decide to fish the Race. It changes all the time; it can be too dangerous for a time (usually high water to one hour after) and then it can suddenly change and become fishable. There are no rules!!

The EBB Race is potentially VERY dangerous but a spring tide (running westwards) 6 to 7 hours after HW Weymouth (at max speed of 7 to even 9 knots) creates a large flat area to the east of the ebb Race which is perfectly fishable. Often the more calm this patch is the worse the actual ebb Race becomes. You cannot miss it. A standing wall of water can be created which will turn you over if you hit it wrong. It's better to stay well to the east of the white water!!

Paul Whittall. Offshore Rebel Charters.



both are at their worst on a spring flood against a strong easterly but this is rare and they are more commonly nasty on an ebb into a brisk SW wind
 
Re: inshore \"channel\"

Scary stuff indeed. I've only been through the Portland inshore passage on the way west from Weymouth, left at the time advised by the HM and been catapulted into Lyme bay with only a few splashes. Each time returning, we knew we couldn't time it correctly so we took the outside route. Once, in a flat calm, I decided it was safe enough to cut across the Shambles (I think it was) towards Weymouth, it was slack water supposedly, and although it wasn't rough there were some impressive "boils" in the water.
 
I have been round the Bill close by three times, once under sail alone which I figure is safer as it lessens the chances of getting hooked on a pot. If you leave from Weymouth then its easy to get the tides just right, any other time as others have said make sure you are 3-7 miles off depending on conditions. Last time we came back from Dartmouth a few weeks ago in a SW 3, we were three miles off and there were yachts at least one mile inside of us.

St Albans Head is another matter and I was seriously frightened in the inshore passage last year, we were about half tide and less than 100m off crossing west to east, we met some standing waves and took three large green ones right over the deck, it half filled the cockpit. The cross tide was so strong that we ended up motor sailing directly for the head just to keep close inshore and not be swept further out into the race. It only lasted for a few minutes but it was horrible while it lasted
The scary thing is that until we were very close you could not tell what the conditions were like.
 
Steve
The St Albans inshore passage is as close in as feels comfortable, go with the tide, all deep water, except in an obvious off shore blow you will be ok.
The Portland race can be a doddle if tide tables are observed. Going West, be at the Bill of Portland 4 HOURS AFTER till 6 HOURS BEFORE HW PORTLAND then you will have a fair stream across Lyme Bay.
Going East try to be at Bill 3 HOURS BEFORE HW till 1 HOUR AFTER.
I have often heard say if boys on the beach can hit you with a pebble you about right. One rock just off Grove Point is about the only hard bit!
Call the National Coastwatch 01305 860178 they are watching you.
One important piece of advice keep a very sharp eye on the pot markers, they are there in abundance with lines trailing between buoys.
Pick a nice day you will enjoy it.
Barry
 
St Albans inshore passage is not entirely predictable in the way the Portland inshore passage is. Sometimes it is a clear well defined zone up to 75m wide, others times it just aint there! In 25 years I still have never quite understood what makes it appear and disappear the way it does. As others have reported the race itself can produce large standing waves which rather suddenly rear up in front of you as you cross the ledge, and by the time you have seen them its too late to turn back.

As a rule of thumb onshore winds on either race much above top end of F4 gusting 5 mean the inshore passages are out. I last did Portland inshore eastbound in a wind that had puffed up to a SW F5 (forecast F3!) and had a very unpleasant time of it - not so many really big waves, but very short and steep. It really felt as though there were a series of large holes in the water into which the boat kept dropping.... hard! Very unpleasant.
 
We did them both for the first time a couple of weeks ago.

I was nervous about Portland, so I timed it very carefully and the inshore route was like a mill pond both ways. Mind you, if you look at the difference between the speed on your GPS and your log and you'll realise how strong the tide is.

St Albans was fine going east, but rough coming back west. We couldn't have got any closer inshore, but at least it was only bad for about 200metres.
 
Did both by the offshore route for the first time last week. Made the Needles and St Albans on the first tide, held station and then wizzed passed Bill of the second tide. We were a good 10 miles off shore. I highly recommend passing Bill at night. You can't see a thing and it doesn't hurt a bit! If you are crossing Lyme Bay don't let anyone tell you the tides are 'largely insignificant'. We got locked it the teeth of Lyme Bay for the whole day on our way to Brixham!
 
"If in danger or in doubt
Turn around and piss off out!" /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

i.e. 5 miles off no problems...having said which I've taken the inner one at Portland, the recommended biscuit toss from the shore, and did that without problems. Just see what feels right on the day.
 
Funny thing I noted both going and comming back, the sea was far worse 3 or 4 miles into Lyme bay than when rounding the bill. Would not have a clue about tide state. I just aim for it, then sort out any probs if they arise, never seen it really rough round the bill or St Albans. Had some sticky does round Start point though. Mind, it's only for a few minutes!! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
5 miles is an absolute minimum if there is any race flowing and any wind against tide conditions. 7 miles is preferable in low wind strengths, 15 miles if wind is above F5/6. You'd be amazed how far out it stretches and affects sea conditions.
 
I'll take your word for that..haven't been through there in anything worse than a force 4, nothing really. personally I prefer to be waaaay out in the ocean...no rocky bits out there...got to watch out for containers or whatever though!
 
Suspect you've been lucky so far. If it gets rough, it gets very very horrid. Far worse than Start Point.

Having said that, it's much easier in a mobo with sufficient power. The problem with yachts is they get stuck in there for hours. Having said that tho, many very big ships have had problems there too.

St Albans is way down list compared to Portland or Start, though just like St Catherines can startle at times.
 
Went through both these areas 2 weeks ago . Misjudged st albans by going through 100 metres off the headland. Banged around a lot , some green stuff into cockpit. Took a picture of a half submerged lobster pot marker with a 6 foot long white wake.
Looked wistfully inshore at the flat water,

Off Portland went well inside, laughed at somebody who went 400m off and was banging around badly in the race. Came round the headland by the seamark and met a grid of lobster pots about 30m apart with all their lines floating about 10 metres along the surface on the smoothish slack water. We picked our way through and the compass only broke off Nimble Point when slamming hard about 8 hours later. It now indicates 45 degrees of heel.

Least favourite place was 5 miles south of Anvil Point. There were three wave patterns convergent : one from offshore, one with the SW wind and one at 90 degrees from a earlier wind . 2.5 knots of foul tide and the sea exploding up in random piles. not nice in a 24 footer. Other places the waves were regular and surfable. At least we were on a broad reach.
After that lot we were able to fall asleep with the buoy off Yarmouth hammering on the side of the boat half the night.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Would not have a clue about tide state. I just aim for it, then sort out any probs if they arise, never seen it really rough round the bill or St Albans.

[/ QUOTE ]
....then you have been lucky. Very lucky. I have seen the race in a F7 wind over spring tide. The Sealink ferry Falaise came out of Weymouth (it was a long time ago!) and cut across the end of the race: I kid you not - she rose to the first big one and nearly a quarter of the length of her keel was clearly visible. The seas were so short that she stuck her bows straight into the next one, throwing water OVER the bridge and funnel, taking solid water across the foredeck.

Being Sealink, schedules were more important than passenger comfort, and she continued in this vein for some ten minutes, with no apparent reduction in speed, or change of course. I guess the dining room and bars did very little trade that day!

The point being that the Portland race can in bad conditions be extremely dangerous even for quite a large yacht, and even small ships, with massive and confused seas which can build up in a very few minutes if the tide turns while you are in it.

It is most definitely not a place to push your luck. The seas are short steep, confused and breaking and have simply overwhelmed a number of vessels over the years, if only because the motion has been so violent that the sails were unable to draw, causing loss of steerage way and control.
 
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