SS Portofino 47 vs. Princess V48

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mornar1969

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At the begining of this season, I was quite sure that our next boat will be Princess V45.
I just love its liveability and design.

However, while researching for pros and cons, I received different opinions.
I'm still not convinced about the engine (V45 too heavy for stern drive?).

Therefore, another boat came across my mind: Princess V48.
It's almost the same boat as V45, but with shafts. Unfortunatelly, I'm afraid it looks a little outdated.

Then, while speaking to some dealer in Italy, he offered another alternative: Sunseeker Portofino 47 Hardtop, at reasonable price.

Any comments?
 
The V45 should be good if equipped with D6-370hp stern drives, toping at close to 35 knots. So this should be enough for you. And consumption would also be half to that of any shaft drive boat, and about 25% less to most pod boats.
Close quater i.e. marina manoving would be ok IMO, but be sure it will have a good powerful bow thruster.
 
Regarding to V45, I received many comments about 'harder' marina manouvering.
However, I disagree.

All (my current + previous boats) had 2 VP sterndrives + bowthruster, and I really don't have any problems with berthing..., therefore I'm also quite sure that should't be a problem with V45.

However, another story (or maybe not) with driving on rough seas....

Anyway, any comments on SS Portofino 47?
 
I was never impressed with the sea keeping of the 47 Portofino, which came from the 46 Porto, which came from the 44 Camargue... etc etc
This hull seems to get better in its longer formats but I would still prefare an Olsenski hull to a recent Don Shead SS one....
If you are used to stern drives then I would go blind folded for the V45...
 
I've just found and older issue of MBY (Feb.2008), with "Mega Test 47ft battle" inside.
They compared SS Portofino 47, Targa 47, Sessa 46 and Jeanneau 50.

Their comment on SS47:
"The fantastic heavy weather ride that the shaftdrive SS47 offers...".

According to mentioned test, SS offered the best heavy weather ride, when compared to other boats on the test.
At the end of mentioned test, they also wrote a note for Princess V45: this is a big boat for a sterndrives.


Well, that's just one test from UK magazine. I'd be glad to hear any other opinions.
 
You can't draw any conclusions about anything from a UK boating magazine as the conclusions are always slanted so as not to offend their regular advertisers. They're hardly likely to say that the ride of the SS47 is anything other than fantastic when SS take out a full page colour ad every month plus 2 classified pages. In any case, the test runs on each boat last a few hours at most and are usually supervised by the manufacturer/dealer, so they will very rarely test a boat in heavy weather anyway. Arrange your own test run and form your own conclusions
 
The Absolute 45 had stern drives & was reported to be one of the best, if my 41 is anything to go by then then they probably where. Conclusion therefore that the princess 45 with stern drives should be good if done well.
 
I looked for the same type of boat earlier in the year and after a lot of thinking and advice from the forum members decided to buy a.... Princess V48.

I discovered you can spend as much time as you like (and I did) pondering the merits of one boat over another in a kind of theoretical way, but the reality is you'll have a budget and a mindset that will dictate whether you buy new (in which case are they still making the boat you decided on?) or will you buy used (in which case, what's available on the market?).

We looked at the Portofino 47, the Princess V45, the Fairline Targa 47 and the Fairline Targa 44.

We thought that the Targa 44 felt smaller inside than the other boats despite the packaging advantage of IPS. We also heard a gentle rumour that it wasn't selling well - which perhaps explains why they brought out a sterndrive version at the same time as producing an open option. If you are looking at the V45, then I would think a sterndrive Targa 44 would be worth a look.

The Targa 47 we liked. We know the Targa 52, and the 47 had the feel of its bigger brother. The 47 was just going out of production, so there were some deals last year. We didn't buy one because we couldn't justify the premium price for the Fairline over the Princess.

The SS 47 looks good to my eyes, but felt a little more cramped than the Princess or Fairline boats. The ones available when we were looking either had a dubious history or were relatively new models and carried high prices.

The Princess V45 we liked immediately. It is a lot of boat and nicely laid out with a modern feel. From certain angles it can look a bit bloated (simply because it is, that how come there is so much room). The owner of Hull #1 is a forum member and he kindly showed us around his, which he'd used extensively and had really enjoyed.

We had the same discussions you are having about shafts versus sterndrive. We really liked the planted feel of the Targa 52, the way is carved around bends like a low flying aircraft, and the solid and reliable way it handled at low speed in marinas. Experienced forumites said we were describing the feel of a large shaft driven sports boat and as that is what we wanted, we chose shafts rather than drives. The V45 was therefore out of the running.

At this point in the search reality stuck it's nose into the boat hunting. With the economy looking stressed we concluded we would only spend cash we had in the bank. So I decided not to buy new, that way I had no need to borrow money. That imposed a budget and in fact, was very helpful, as it stopped my dithering and cut down the options.

We got around to looking at a V48 and we really liked it. It isn't as modern looking as the V45 for sure, but as with many Princesses, it manages to be just a little timeless. I can live with it achieving that by being less bling than the SS and not as sharp edged as the Targa.

It also had a very boatie interior. I like gloss and curved wood and chrome inserts. I suspect Princess couldn't afford to make an interior like the V48 any longer, too much work on that size of boat.

We found three boats available. Two had full med spec, one didn't. We took advice that if you can get med-spec, go for it. One boat in particular was only 3 years old, had been well looked after (faultless in the surveys of both hull and engines), had full med spec and the owner was willing to do a deal - so we bought it. Availability, spec, price, budget, a deal and the decision to get on with it all came together.

It does handle just like we wanted and with 575-D9's it hits 38knts when its clean. Fuel consumption varies from 0.7mpg to 0.9mpg. We've done something like 1200 miles in everything from mirror calm to launching off the top of some rather large waves (not on purpose, the downside of an over-exuberant son). We're getting used to parking in crowded harbours - we haven't hit too much too hard.

Would we have been satisfied with one of the other choices? We probably would but I am very happy with the V48. PM me if you want to know more, or visit Swanwick if you want to poke around.
 
mornar1969 said:
Great answer, THNX.
Maybe a short question: would you still pick a Princess, if there were any SS's available for similar budget?
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A tricky question, not a short one!

There are so many variables it's hard to boil it down to a simple yes/no. For example I was drawn to looking for a 2007 boat, whatever the manufacturer. I thought 3 years old was about right to have depreciated, to have had all the glitches ironed out, not old enough to need anything replacing, plus if I kept it two years, it would still feel like a modern boat to prospective buyers when I came to sell.

I can see an 2006 model SS 47 on Yachtworld at £380 (inc VAT) with med-spec. Would I go for it over a 2007 Princess V48 for 20% less? I don't think so. The reality is you have a 48ft sports cruiser with Volvo D9-575's from a reputable manufacturer either way.

Is there a measurable difference in their heavy weather handling? You could probably argue it either way, and again, in reality who cares? If there is a difference you're probably not safe trying to find out.

So a clear cut decision, buy the Princess. They offer close enough the quality of Fairline and Sunseeker that people come to blows over who is where in the pecking order, but they're usually available at a lower price. BTW, the Princess guys at Swanwick have been really helpful, so the backup is there even for a used boat buyer.

Now I will muddy the water. You aren't spending the money you are just converting it from cash into GRP. If you buy the more expensive Sunseeker it will be worth more in 24 months time. So you only really need to fund the extra cost while you own it. With interest rates so low and if you have the cash, why not? An extra £100k capital outlay will cost you £10k over 2 years. Is £10k worth it to you to own the Sunseeker?

For me it wasn't worth it. I smile (every time) the turbo's kick in and the V48 lifts and flies. It wouldn't make it a bigger grin if it had a different badge.
 
An excellent post, kcrane, and v similar to our buying process. Every time we change our boat, I get tempted by all the shiny new models at boat shows and start poring over brochures and pricelists trying to convince myself and 'er indoors that, this time, it really would make sense to buy new. Fortunately, common sense always kicks in and I end up buying a used boat because inevitably they represent far greater value for money both in terms of the amount of boat you get and the much reduced depreciation. Boating is expensive enough without throwing away hundreds of thousands of quid in depreciation.
There's nowt wrong with the V48 and Princess in general. I certainly wouldn't put Princess build quality below that of Sunseeker and Fairline. The styling and finish may be less glitzy but on the whole I think thats a good thing because IMHO, highly stylised boats tend to age quicker. Anyway, it sounds like you made an excellent decision
 
Great answers, thanks.

Maybe some additional question:
V48 is (unfortunatelly) allready out of production, no replacement yet.

How about SS47.
According to model code, new SS48 could be replacement. Or not?
While browsing 2010 Cannes Boat Show boats list, there is not SS47, only SS48.
Question: is SS47 going out of production, too?
 
Deleted User said:
Every time we change our boat, I get tempted by all the shiny new models at boat shows and start poring over brochures and pricelists trying to convince myself and 'er indoors that, this time, it really would make sense to buy new.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, that is where we start too. We're on a West Country cruise at the same time as SIBS. I said to SWMBO that we'd give it a miss this year, what with having just bought the Princess. She suggested we can always hire a car and drive back for 'just a quick look around', so maybe she's got the bug worse than me <g>
 
Where are the 48ft sportscruisers?

mornar1969 said:
Great answers, thanks.

Maybe some additional question:
V48 is (unfortunatelly) allready out of production, no replacement yet.

How about SS47.
According to model code, new SS48 could be replacement. Or not?
While browsing 2010 Cannes Boat Show boats list, there is not SS47, only SS48.
Question: is SS47 going out of production, too?
Click to expand...

Yes, I think you are right. Strange that the 44ft-48ft size range was popular, but has faded. PYB will be along to tell us if it is only the UK builders who are dropping that size range.

Princess jump from V45 to either the new V52 or the V56 (the V53 as was).

Sunseeker have dropped the Porto47 for the new Porto48, which fits a lot in, having mid-cabin and garage and lifting platform. The London Boat Show demo boat was listed at an eye watering price, later explained by the garish paint job, but I think it remains an expensive choice. Hasn't stopped there being a waiting list though.

Fairline have dropped the T47 and the T52, so now they jump from the T44 to what will be the new T50. JFM may have some insight into T50 pricing?

Sealine have the SC47 with the Cummins pod system, adding a third variable into shaft versus sterndrives <g> I had an evening at the Kidderminster factory with David Stretton, their Manufacturing Director a month or two ago. Nice chap.

Upgrading from an existing 47ft-48ft boat to a new boat the next size up is an expensive option, probably doubling the capital tied up in a boat and considerably increasing the exposure to depreciation.

As the owner of a fairly late model 48ft boat I'm rather hoping the lack of competing new models means used prices will stay firm!
 
kcrane said:
JFM may have some insight into T50 pricing?
Click to expand...

Not particularly, sorry. I believe the new T50 has sold well and there are very limited (like, one or two) available delivery slots for 2011, so anyone wanting that boat has to move fast. But I'm on 2nd hand infgo here; best talk to a dealer to find out for sure. Also, one of the very last T47s is available brand new at a keen price. Shrinkwrapped, brand new, blue hull, D9-575s, med spec inc aircon, sitting on the hard at Essex Boatyards (so not ideal for OP who is in Italy, I accept, though it will easily transport by truck) and keenly priced

I agree your earlier comment KCrane that buying a bigger boat, if you choose well, is just moving from cash to GRP. You can eliminate much depreciation by buying carefully, so might as well put the cash to work providing some fun. I'd be interested to know where you're depositing cash at 5% after tax btw; I struggle to get better than 0.5%, risk free :)
 
Yes the UK builders accept Fairline and Sealine seem to abandon the sub 50 feet sizes recently. Princess now owned by Mr. Vuitton seems also escaping from the smaller sizes, but we will see where this will lead. But I've heard this rumour about the V45 not selling how much they wanted, and the V42 Mk.III also being hard to sell. May be the real reason is that these two models actually compete with one another
It is a pity because this will surely give an open road to the French builders, which will prove how a product can be just as well made and still being competitively priced.

If you watch the Italians on the other hand they have studied the fact that in the recession 2009 year the length between the 30 and 40 feet was very vital and sold the best out of all the sizes. You have builders like Azimut who presented a 38 and 40S which sold three times as much as they expected, so I think something is working wrong for those bulders if they are not producing anymore medium sized boats i.e. or just how some salesman will call them small. Yes small and costly starting from about 300k+ a boat!!!
The Azimut 38 and 40S are expensive, but they still managed to out sell the cheaper French competition by a very good margin.
Fairline is also adapting its smaller sizes, and the recent replanning of the 44 Targa has apparently doubled sales, as well as the new planned model 41 Squadron has also received a lot of orders just on design. So the market is there for the smaller sizes the builders just have to put there mind to it and present a quality product like they used in the past.
Sunseeker has stopped the 47 Portofino replaced by the 48 presented in London show.
 
jfm said:
I'd be interested to know where you're depositing cash at 5% after tax btw; I struggle to get better than 0.5%, risk free :)
Click to expand...

I'm interested in where you are getting a return risk-free!

You are right, sadly, I can't get 5%, so I'll claim I was trying to find a happy medium between the cost of borrowing if you don't have the cash and lost interest if you do.

PS - Can you drop an email to SWMBO mentioning cash and GRP are pretty much the same thing if you avoid depreciation while interest rates are low?

Maybe something like:

"Dear R,
Apropos of nothing in particular, I thought I'd just drop you a line to mention a thought I had last night. I was thinking, with interest rates so low and if you chose a low depreciating model, there isn't much difference between keeping cash in the bank or tying it up in a boat.
Best wishes, JFM."
 
Wishful thinking...

PowerYachtBlog said:
It is a pity because this will surely give an open road to the French builders, which will prove how a product can be just as well made and still being competitively priced.
Click to expand...

Thanks PYB, I knew you'd have a POV. The Beneteau 42 was tested against the T44 last month and came out quite well.

Just as a matter of interest, and nothing to do with asking jfm to help smooth the path, but where do you see the values of used 50ft sports boats going... for example models just replaced, like T52 and V53. I like the idea that 48ft prices are solid due to few new replacements but that 50ft prices weaken as the newer T50, V52, V56 arrive. :-)
 
Hello Kevin this an interesting and difficult question. Boats have always kept there prices well in the UK. So it will always depend on how much these new boats sell.
If these new generation of hard tops are succesful new V52 and 50 Targa GT with patio door might make for a tight market to the more med orientated open designs. So far this type of hard top is going in slow in the UK market which is strange considering how well this is suited to the UK weather.
I consider the V56 as just a filler for a new V series coming in later on next year with a similar concept to V52 and V62....
For me as you said, you might just be hanging in the right size for a slow depreciation, considering that so far no UK builder have presented patio door boats in this sizes, altough Italian and French producers have been doing this for a couple years now and may be with the pound going stronger the UK market might just open up for them again....
But your V48 and 47 Targa GT might still hold a good value, and considering you bought used you might just make the right spot.
 
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