TiggerToo
Well-Known Member
What is the difference? when would you use one but not the other?
spinnaker vs whisker poles...
- Thread starter TiggerToo
- Start date
Fergus
Well-Known Member
Size mainly. I wouldn't be able to pole out my genny or cruising shute with the spinny pole - far too long!!
bbg
Well-Known Member
spi poles vs whisker poles?
Spi pole will definitely be stronger, because it has to support the tack of a free-flying sail. It has to deal with all the compression forces from that. It is also typically the "J" measurement (base of mast to forestay at deck). You would use one to fly a spinnaker.
Whisker pole is to pole out the clew of a headsail when you are sailing deep downwind. It does not face the same compression (or lifting) forces a spi pole does, so does not need to be as strong. Some are even (I understand) telescoping.
You could use a spi pole as a whisker pole, but it might be the wrong length. If you tried to use a whisker pole as a spi pole, it would fold up in short order unless the wind was VERY light.
Spi pole will definitely be stronger, because it has to support the tack of a free-flying sail. It has to deal with all the compression forces from that. It is also typically the "J" measurement (base of mast to forestay at deck). You would use one to fly a spinnaker.
Whisker pole is to pole out the clew of a headsail when you are sailing deep downwind. It does not face the same compression (or lifting) forces a spi pole does, so does not need to be as strong. Some are even (I understand) telescoping.
You could use a spi pole as a whisker pole, but it might be the wrong length. If you tried to use a whisker pole as a spi pole, it would fold up in short order unless the wind was VERY light.
doris
Well-Known Member
A spinnaker pole will normally be about 18inches longer than your J measurement, the base of your fore triangle. It will be strong enough to take the significant compression loads created by a kite poled out at the tack of the sail.. A whisker pole may well be a bit shorter than your J although not always, and only has to take the load of a poled out headsail. It is much cheaper and lighter, could even be extendable.
To quote the rating office
'The definition of a whisker pole as given in the Oxford English Dictionary
and the Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea is "a short bearing-out spar used in yachts and sailing dinghies to bear out the clew of the jib on the opposite side of the mainsail when running before the wind, thus obtaining some of the advantage which would be gained in a larger vessel when she sets a spinnaker."
If you are considering using a spar to deflect a standard spinnaker brace/guy on the way to the bowsprit then that would be considered to be a jockey pole or reaching strut. If you are planning on holding the brace/guy or tack line directly with this spar then it is either an articulating bowsprit or a spinnaker pole, depending on whether it is attached at its inboard end at the mast or on the deck/bow.
Only if it is being used to bear on the clew of the sail can it be considered to be a whisker pole. I hope this clarifies things for you.
Both this definition and the ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing refer to whisker
poles only being used with headsails. We do not have the authority to
interpret the ISAF RRS, but I would think that you can only use a whisker
pole with a headsail, not a spinnaker.'
To quote the rating office
'The definition of a whisker pole as given in the Oxford English Dictionary
and the Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea is "a short bearing-out spar used in yachts and sailing dinghies to bear out the clew of the jib on the opposite side of the mainsail when running before the wind, thus obtaining some of the advantage which would be gained in a larger vessel when she sets a spinnaker."
If you are considering using a spar to deflect a standard spinnaker brace/guy on the way to the bowsprit then that would be considered to be a jockey pole or reaching strut. If you are planning on holding the brace/guy or tack line directly with this spar then it is either an articulating bowsprit or a spinnaker pole, depending on whether it is attached at its inboard end at the mast or on the deck/bow.
Only if it is being used to bear on the clew of the sail can it be considered to be a whisker pole. I hope this clarifies things for you.
Both this definition and the ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing refer to whisker
poles only being used with headsails. We do not have the authority to
interpret the ISAF RRS, but I would think that you can only use a whisker
pole with a headsail, not a spinnaker.'
flaming
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Size mainly. I wouldn't be able to pole out my genny or cruising shute with the spinny pole - far too long!!
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I've never totally understood this, which I've heard stated a number of times, as I routinely pole out the genoa on a spinaker pole. Why is it too long? A typical spin pole is just about the same length as the distance from the mast to the base of the forestay, give or take.
If the pole was much shorter then when you poled out the jib the sail would be quite folded and much less stable.
Size mainly. I wouldn't be able to pole out my genny or cruising shute with the spinny pole - far too long!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I've never totally understood this, which I've heard stated a number of times, as I routinely pole out the genoa on a spinaker pole. Why is it too long? A typical spin pole is just about the same length as the distance from the mast to the base of the forestay, give or take.
If the pole was much shorter then when you poled out the jib the sail would be quite folded and much less stable.
doris
Well-Known Member
The longer your STL measurement (Sp Pole or front of mast to bowsprit end) the better, within reason, and it is very cheap on the rating hence most boats have e STL longer than J. This usually makes them too long to be whisker poles.
Fergus
Well-Known Member
maybe differences between boats due to overall length/sail size? Dunno..
My spinny pole is certainly very long!
My spinny pole is certainly very long!
Juggler7823
Well-Known Member
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A spinnaker pole will normally be about 18inches longer than your J measurement, the base of your fore triangle.
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I don't think this is correct. The spinnaker pole cannot be longer than J
A spinnaker pole will normally be about 18inches longer than your J measurement, the base of your fore triangle.
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I don't think this is correct. The spinnaker pole cannot be longer than J
bedouin
Well-Known Member
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and it is very cheap on the rating hence most boats have e STL longer than J. This usually makes them too long to be whisker poles.
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Surely that depends on the length of the foot of your headsail?
I have a spinnaker pole of roughly J, but a 150% genoa, so the spinnaker pole is far too short to be effective as a whisker pole.
and it is very cheap on the rating hence most boats have e STL longer than J. This usually makes them too long to be whisker poles.
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Surely that depends on the length of the foot of your headsail?
I have a spinnaker pole of roughly J, but a 150% genoa, so the spinnaker pole is far too short to be effective as a whisker pole.
doris
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A spinnaker pole will normally be about 18inches longer than your J measurement, the base of your fore triangle.
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I don't think this is correct. The spinnaker pole cannot be longer than J
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Why not? On one of my boats I had 2 poles. One was a tad longer than J , the other much longer. Dip poling the long one was a pain but do-able. There is no rule that stops anything.
[ QUOTE ]
A spinnaker pole will normally be about 18inches longer than your J measurement, the base of your fore triangle.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think this is correct. The spinnaker pole cannot be longer than J
[/ QUOTE ]
Why not? On one of my boats I had 2 poles. One was a tad longer than J , the other much longer. Dip poling the long one was a pain but do-able. There is no rule that stops anything.
moody1
Well-Known Member
Spinny poles based on general accepted race allowances are referenced to the J figure.
Race boats keep to accepted sail area figures and that also includes spinnakers / genoas referenced to J figure. Step outside of this and you will be penalised on handicap.
Should you choose to be outside of this for cruising - that is purely your choice.
Whisker poles are often telescopic based on being useable on different size headsails incl. furled gennys.
Some have mentioned that a Whisker pole cannot be used on a Spinnaker as it will fold. I haven't seen one fold yet after many years of such use. I would suggest that if the compression force exerted on the pole causes it to fold, then the spinnaker is poorly set and not drawing the boat properly.
Our Whisker pole doubles as our spinny pole, but I do admit that the pole carries a warning that it is not to be used for spinnakers - this I believe is because being telescopic there may be a tendency for someone to use a smaller section one as it will extend to length required and remain light.
Of course I'm no expert ! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Race boats keep to accepted sail area figures and that also includes spinnakers / genoas referenced to J figure. Step outside of this and you will be penalised on handicap.
Should you choose to be outside of this for cruising - that is purely your choice.
Whisker poles are often telescopic based on being useable on different size headsails incl. furled gennys.
Some have mentioned that a Whisker pole cannot be used on a Spinnaker as it will fold. I haven't seen one fold yet after many years of such use. I would suggest that if the compression force exerted on the pole causes it to fold, then the spinnaker is poorly set and not drawing the boat properly.
Our Whisker pole doubles as our spinny pole, but I do admit that the pole carries a warning that it is not to be used for spinnakers - this I believe is because being telescopic there may be a tendency for someone to use a smaller section one as it will extend to length required and remain light.
Of course I'm no expert ! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
flaming
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Some have mentioned that a Whisker pole cannot be used on a Spinnaker as it will fold. I haven't seen one fold yet after many years of such use. I would suggest that if the compression force exerted on the pole causes it to fold, then the spinnaker is poorly set and not drawing the boat properly.
[/ QUOTE ]
This may be the case if you only use your spinaker on a deep run (which to be fair most cruisers do) but heating it up onto a reach, especially towards the top of the wind range, and you will fold a whisker pole for sure.
There's a reason why so many race boats have carbon poles which are hardly any lighter than the aluminium ones they replaced - strength!
Some have mentioned that a Whisker pole cannot be used on a Spinnaker as it will fold. I haven't seen one fold yet after many years of such use. I would suggest that if the compression force exerted on the pole causes it to fold, then the spinnaker is poorly set and not drawing the boat properly.
[/ QUOTE ]
This may be the case if you only use your spinaker on a deep run (which to be fair most cruisers do) but heating it up onto a reach, especially towards the top of the wind range, and you will fold a whisker pole for sure.
There's a reason why so many race boats have carbon poles which are hardly any lighter than the aluminium ones they replaced - strength!
doris
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Spinny poles based on general accepted race allowances are referenced to the J figure.
Race boats keep to accepted sail area figures and that also includes spinnakers / genoas referenced to J figure. Step outside of this and you will be penalised on handicap.
Agreed but the rating penalty is small compared to the gain when reaching. If you have an asym kite or a symetrical that can go shy the gain from the longer pole is significant. For round the cans when the courses are predominantly sausages this is less relevant but on longer races when reaching and the ability to sail a v. shy kite comes into it's own a longer pole is more than worth while.
Spinny poles based on general accepted race allowances are referenced to the J figure.
Race boats keep to accepted sail area figures and that also includes spinnakers / genoas referenced to J figure. Step outside of this and you will be penalised on handicap.
Agreed but the rating penalty is small compared to the gain when reaching. If you have an asym kite or a symetrical that can go shy the gain from the longer pole is significant. For round the cans when the courses are predominantly sausages this is less relevant but on longer races when reaching and the ability to sail a v. shy kite comes into it's own a longer pole is more than worth while.
moody1
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some have mentioned that a Whisker pole cannot be used on a Spinnaker as it will fold. I haven't seen one fold yet after many years of such use. I would suggest that if the compression force exerted on the pole causes it to fold, then the spinnaker is poorly set and not drawing the boat properly.
[/ QUOTE ]
This may be the case if you only use your spinaker on a deep run (which to be fair most cruisers do) but heating it up onto a reach, especially towards the top of the wind range, and you will fold a whisker pole for sure.
There's a reason why so many race boats have carbon poles which are hardly any lighter than the aluminium ones they replaced - strength!
[/ QUOTE ]
In this case the pole will be leading more fwd and possibly against forestay - a completely different situation to compression. This is tranverse stress on the pole causing it to fold around the stay or because the pole guy and spinny are both acting more along the pole causing fold. I would suggest that most cruiser people are not into having spinnys up in this situation.
[ QUOTE ]
Some have mentioned that a Whisker pole cannot be used on a Spinnaker as it will fold. I haven't seen one fold yet after many years of such use. I would suggest that if the compression force exerted on the pole causes it to fold, then the spinnaker is poorly set and not drawing the boat properly.
[/ QUOTE ]
This may be the case if you only use your spinaker on a deep run (which to be fair most cruisers do) but heating it up onto a reach, especially towards the top of the wind range, and you will fold a whisker pole for sure.
There's a reason why so many race boats have carbon poles which are hardly any lighter than the aluminium ones they replaced - strength!
[/ QUOTE ]
In this case the pole will be leading more fwd and possibly against forestay - a completely different situation to compression. This is tranverse stress on the pole causing it to fold around the stay or because the pole guy and spinny are both acting more along the pole causing fold. I would suggest that most cruiser people are not into having spinnys up in this situation.
