Spanish matric tax - latest development is tooting horns :-/

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jfm

jfm

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I could hardly believe this

This issue is a good 3 years old. There is a whole bunch of legal process and remedy in Spain, plus a clear route to the European court, yet from what I have seen the boating industry is using second division law firms and now is organising - wait for it - a tooting of horns. Wow, the politicians in Madrid and Catalonia must be so scared of that. Telling your adversary that you're not a very strong opponent and giving them something to laugh at is a pretty stupid tactic in a battle like this (imho).

I wish them well but hope they get a bit smarter
 
I customer of mine has succeeded in having his charge dropped, of rsather his attorney did.

The court found that the agency claiming the €20k plus had left it too long to claim (over four years) were over aggresive, and demanded too much. It is a land mark case. I have the tribunals official papers throwing out the case.
 
Renegade_Master said:
I customer of mine has succeeded in having his charge dropped, of rsather his attorney did.

The court found that the agency claiming the €20k plus had left it too long to claim (over four years) were over aggresive, and demanded too much. It is a land mark case. I have the tribunals official papers throwing out the case.
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Good to hear Clive that some folks know what they are doing and are getting the right result. Pity it is not more widespread. Unfortunately I have in my inbox zillions of pages on other battles being fought in this war and I despair at the lighteight lawyering in some cases. There is a whole bunch of skill and tactics in litigating tax and it has to be done right. Tooting horns (ffs) aint the way to do it.
 
jfm said:
Tooting horns (ffs) aint the way to do it.
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I have no doubt that you are brilliant at your job and many of the idiots you are dealing with will not come close to your specialist subjects however, when dealing with an overwhelming number of idiots you need to appreciate that the idiots can create their own mini world of rules and obscure decisions can be influenced by yet more idiots .
 
Well the Spanish authorities can be influenced by bad publicity, so organising a protest that gets media coverage will help the cause from a political point of view. So in that sense it is hardly wasted effort, if it helps persuade the government to change their stance, especially when elections are coming up.
 
DAKA said:
I have no doubt that you are brilliant at your job and many of the idiots you are dealing with will not come close to your specialist subjects however, when dealing with an overwhelming number of idiots you need to appreciate that the idiots can create their own mini world of rules and obscure decisions can be influenced by yet more idiots .
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You are talking about these forums aren't you? ;)
 
lovezoo said:
Well the Spanish authorities can be influenced by bad publicity, so organising a protest that gets media coverage will help the cause from a political point of view. So in that sense it is hardly wasted effort, if it helps persuade the government to change their stance, especially when elections are coming up.
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Each to their own on how to fight these battles. I'd have had the Spanish Revenue in front of the EU court, reading the Treaty of Rome to them, about a year ago. Then I'd toot my horn :-)
 
I think you would have to get in the queue when it comes to taking the Spanish government to court over EU rules. The Spanish attitude is, if there is a rule you don't like - just ignore it and hope it goes away. This is why everything from the length of TV adverts, to demolishing foreigners homes, to inheritance tax and water quality standards, breaks one EU law or another and the government just doesn't seem to care.
 
I am and have been for >10 years at the front of the queue on many fronts with Spain and didn't stand in line to get there. The spanish legal profession is polarised, in the sense there is small number of really good (I mean really really good) tax lawyers who know what they're doing and get stuff done. They are not cheap and so are generally busy on big corporate stuff. I know several of them very well personally, for many years. Then there is the other 99+% who toot horns as a battle tactic. Part of the reason the government doesn't care is that the main volume of their opposition is this horn-tooting lot.
 
Renegade_Master said:
I customer of mine has succeeded in having his charge dropped, of rsather his attorney did.

The court found that the agency claiming the €20k plus had left it too long to claim (over four years) were over aggresive, and demanded too much. It is a land mark case. I have the tribunals official papers throwing out the case.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's unique. I know of 2 owners who mounted legal challenges in Majorca and succeeded in substantially reducing the amount of tax that they were obliged to pay. They were able to demonstrate that the authorities had wildly over estimated the value of their boats. In fact one owner was the current owner of my previous boat who was assessed for about 3 times as much tax as myself despite the fact that my old boat was worth substantially less than the boat on which my tax had been assessed.
 
I think thats being unfair, jfm. Most if not all of the charter companies involved are one horse companies (often run by ex pats) without the wherewithal to mount a sustained legal challenge in a European court. As for the owners, well, like me, they are faced with their boats being impounded for non payment of the tax and no owner is going to hang around for years with their boat rotting in a Spanish marina waiting for a ruling in the European Court which the Spanish govt is probably going to ignore anyway.
Yes I agree a tooting horn protest looks ridiculous and perhaps blockading Palma harbour entrance would have had more effect but, as I understand it, the local boating industry has not been totally submissive on this issue. I hear that the local Balearic govt is beginning to understand the true effect of this matriculation tax issue on their tourist revenue and there have been mutterings about the tax being dropped in the near future. Unfortunately, I guess that doesn't mean reimbursing money to owners like me
 
Just got back home so a quick observation from me.

We spent the night before last in Mahon - a quick overnight and refuel stop between Bonifacio and Sant Carles. We were last in Mahon a couple of years ago before the last Mat Tax fiasco.

The place was like a ghost town in comparison - I wonder if the Spanish authorities know how much damage they have done.
 
What a sad situation for all.
The on-going threat & issue of the matric tax was a consideration, amongst many others, for us very sadly departing Mallorca & selling our boat (albeit for a £2k loss in six years).
We went boating for pleasure, not hassle.
Maybe it was only an extra grain of sand that finally broke the camels back, but it did.
Six months on, lots of great memories, but not in the market for buying again or returning.
 
Hurricane said:
The place was like a ghost town ...
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Glad to hear you got back to SC all safe and well.

Yup, "ghost town" is pretty much how oceandrive has described it as well. Amazing stupidity by the spanish. You can't tax things that can move (at least, not too heavily) but the spanish seem too stupid to realise that
 
Here cars are taxed quite heavily, tax ranging from 12 to 49 %. The car tax is applied equally to privately imported used cars. Customs even used to add vat on the car tax, but that was overruled in eu court (the case was taken to court by a private person) and they had to return the vat paid by around 70000 private individuals. The process took years, though.
 
Hurricane said:
Just got back home so a quick observation from me.

We spent the night before last in Mahon - a quick overnight and refuel stop between Bonifacio and Sant Carles. We were last in Mahon a couple of years ago before the last Mat Tax fiasco.

The place was like a ghost town in comparison - I wonder if the Spanish authorities know how much damage they have done.
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Good to hear you are now back home and JW safe and sound in SCM Mike. Sounds like you had a great time. So when are we going to read another detailed post with lots of Pics? I have seen the ones already posted on SCM CHAT!......

Now as far as the OP and Spanish taxes is concerned: I am astounded at the way Spain conducts its tax affairs, in Oct 2010 MDL were advised by the Tax Office in Catalonia, that they must charge 18% instead of 8% IVA on all berthing agreements! I believe they contested it but lost.....
 
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