Spain - reports and discussion about society - no boat taxes please

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<span style="color:blue">The (middle-class) couple are ashamed to be seen entering the soup kitchen's grey metal doors, formerly open only to the homeless and elderly. Mari Cruz doesn't take her children inside the hall, where Spaniards and immigrants eat in silence beneath flower-adorned pictures of the Virgin Mary and saints.

"If we had known what was going to happen, we would not have borrowed like we did, but no-one knew," she says, tension in her voice.</span>

[/ QUOTE ] -- Reuters

Page 1......

By Andrew Hay

MOSTOLES (Reuters) - Mari Cruz keeps her designer sunglasses perched in her hair as she lunches on pork and vegetables from a blue plastic tray in the first municipal soup kitchen Spain has set up for its army of unemployed.

"My parents had it better," said the mother of three, sitting alongside Ecuadorean and Romanian immigrants who were laid off early in the crisis. "At least they had food in the house and jobs to go to."

In her early forties, she and her husband Antonio used to dine out each week at restaurants. They asked that their last name not be used as they have joined hundreds of thousands of families in Spain sinking below the bread line.

They form a generation of Spaniards hoisted into the middle classes by cheap euro-zone credit and well-paid construction work, but who are now losing jobs and defaulting on debt in what may be the fiercest recession in a developed country.

Spain's problems can be seen in ranks of brand new, empty apartment blocks, abandoned building sites and deserted shopping centres that ring Madrid -- a situation Nobel-prize winning economist Paul Krugman likens to California and Florida.

Its tightly regulated banks are feeling the strain after bad loans quadrupled in the past year, leading to the country's first bank rescue of the global crisis in March.

"This place is not the answer, we need jobs," snapped Antonio angrily. The soup kitchen in commuter city of Mostoles on the outskirts of Madrid was set up by the conservative Popular Party council to cope with 16 percent unemployment. That is by far the highest rate in the 27-member European Union.

Spain faces a summer of rising social tension as dole payments end for some unemployed people, and the desperate blame immigrants for their problems or say they are tempted to steal rather than go hungry. Continued...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKTRE53702920090408?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
 
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Mari Cruz keeps her designer sunglasses perched in her hair

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Sorry for Fred Drift, but i have always wondered about the shade bit, I watch peeps in the (dark) evenings in a Taverna having a meal, wearing shades on their head. To me, they have been out for the day and not had time to have a shower, otherwise why would they have shades on in the dark? the Brits are the worst for this, maybe it matches their tattoos or I am missing something? Sorry Lemain I have gone now /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
I really believe that we haven't even seen the start of it yet... Read www.baselinescenario.com set up by group from Yale, MIT and Harvard, they paint a really depressing picture of what we can expect to see over the coming years.

Me? I'm glad I live on a boat!

Marina here is empty, was full this time last year. At least 8 boats from here(45) berths have returned to USA to work/sell up. Worrying times.

www.gerryantics.blogspot.com
 
watching the price of a little boat in Almeria.The price has dropped from 6ooo euros to 3500 euros in a few weeks.Nice boat but the wife wants a"PROPER" toilet!.Here in GALICIA the mega stores still attracting full car parks on Saturdays,but the punters seem to be wandering andf not buying.The family is still stong here and for many years the pensioners have been helping the finances of the family zas ther is limited social services and "dole". Add to that its been sunny for weeks and now at easter its raining its not looking good for the tourist trade.
 
Strange how history keeps repeating itself. Quote from Wikipedia:
"The Great Depression was a worldwide economic downturn starting in most places in 1929 and ending at different times in the 1930s or early 1940s for different countries. It was the largest and most important economic depression in the 20th century, and is used in the 21st century as an example of how far the world's economy can fall. The Great Depression originated in the United States; historians most often use as a starting date the stock market crash on October 29, 1929, known as Black Tuesday.

The depression had devastating effects in virtually every country, rich or poor. International trade plunged by half to two-thirds, as did personal income, tax revenue, prices and profits. Cities all around the world were hit hard, especially those dependent on heavy industry. Construction was virtually halted in many countries. Farming and rural areas suffered as crop prices fell by roughly 60 percent. Facing plummeting demand with few alternate sources of jobs, areas dependent on primary sector industries such as farming, mining and logging suffered the most. However, even shortly after the Wall Street Crash of 1929, optimism persisted; John D. Rockefeller said that "These are days when many are discouraged. In the 93 years of my life, depressions have come and gone. Prosperity has always returned and will again."

We certainly hope so
 
That was adepression in black and white /sepia.Men on street corners et al.These days it is hidden indoors with the telly and playstation,althought yesterday there was news of a council run soup kitchen in Madrid frequented not only by down and outs!
 
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...,although yesterday there was news of a council run soup kitchen in Madrid frequented not only by down and outs!

[/ QUOTE ]Which is where we came in....but has anyone noticed how often Michelle Obama has been reported as serving in soup kitchens close to the White House? I don't remember any reference to soup kitchens in the USA since I have been old enough to read the papers. Maybe they have always been there, but why all the publicity? Is it to make the Obamas look good (surely not, surely they can be of more value resolving the underlying problems rather than dishing-out gruel?). Is it because there is a shortage of people willing, able or prepared to dish-out gruel? Or is it a publicity stunt to make the Obamas look like caring people? In which case I hope this issue turns round and bites them hard on the backside because they SHOULD be able to do something much more profitable and useful.

How about some charity lunches hosted by the Obamas at a cost of $150 per head all profits to those who need support? Or is that not 'caring' enough for the hands-on Obamas? Or, maybe, more presidentially, a policy change to give, as of right, enough food to every US Citizen to live, if they have insufficient to eat?
 
I personally would love to see it. besides what many think,
there are soup kitchens as you call it all over america.
America has as many poor as most of europe. over 50 million
americans have no health care. and to boot, heathcare costs
more when you don't have insurance in america.
Americans need to worry more at home and less abroad.
My wife, as a hospice nurse watched as patients and families were torn between food and medicine. Things in america are not all rosy for the average person.
rickf
s/v calaloo
 
EXACTLY what we experienced this last winter. Spanish people are frightened and angry, BUT there is also a still wealthy "middle" class that has only relevantly recently materialised who are still spending, just like the UK.
Yes, millions of unfinished homes and huge developments with roads and all services intalled with the street lights burning at night but no homes, only dozens and dozens of camper vans connecting to the insecure electrical boxes. Guess what nationality!!
There are also a lot of UK nationals who have been forced to return to the UK as their pensions have virtually halved in value over the last five years. We were in Spain when the Euro was introduced and we were getting €1.74 to the pound and now say €1.10 plus high inflation over the last four years it is now twice as expensive to live in Spain than it was. This is born out by the numbers of Brits shopping in Lidl and Aldi who wouldn't go near these supermarkets when in the UK.
 
This is what you were getting as at 01/01/02

GBP United Kingdom Pounds 0.6093652563 1.6410518810

This is today's rate

GBP United Kingdom Pounds 0.8836093218 1.1317218768

Whilst not quite €1.74 as stated and these are commercial rates it still represents a significant drop. However, the pound does seem to be regaining some strength in the last few weeks. I'm not sure whether we should have been in the single currency from the start or out of Europe altogether. If I had been a pensioner several years ago I would definitely be one of the unfortunate ones now, that said, If we had joined the Euro years ago we would have had one problem less. Not being in Europe would allow us to control our own policies more regarding immigration, human rights, subsidies and so on.

I think on the whole we have got the worst of all scenarios due to dithering by our politicians. I think they want us to be a little bit pregnant and that is where the problem lies. We are neither benefitting from the EU or being allowed to make our own decisions. As the rest of Europe won't allow us to join at anything like a decent rate we should withdraw from the EU and take control of our own destiny.
 
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I think on the whole we have got the worst of all scenarios due to dithering by our politicians. I think they want us to be a little bit pregnant and that is where the problem lies. We are neither benefitting from the EU or being allowed to make our own decisions. As the rest of Europe won't allow us to join at anything like a decent rate we should withdraw from the EU and take control of our own destiny.

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"Dithering" is probably one of the most polite excuses I have heard or read about for any politician (especially this bunch) for a long time !

When has our political system allowed us to "take control of our own destiny"? You are right with "take control", this present goverment is damned good at that, but I am afraid the only destiny we are allowed is the route that suits them.

I think a few years ago we would have been better out of the EU but I fear it much too late now. Maybe the only radical thing to happen would be for the whole EU to relinquish it's parliament and go back to sovereign states controlling their own destinies.

The only underlying feature to the economic climate is that we are all more or less all in the same boat, regardless of which EU state we belong to. Bear in mind though the politians will not be suffering like us poor mortals are, safe salaries, expenses and pensions.

Anyway bug ger this I'm going to cheer myself up with another glass of red, *&&^^£$^%^* Brown and Darling are not going to spoil that for me (only by tax and propaganda) and anyway, once you've drank plenty who gives a monkies?
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
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