Southern St Lucia is a dodgy area

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chrisb

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The majority of yachts arriving in the Caribbean every December do so with the ARC . The organisers of ARC pride themselves on their safety procedures and safety record . It would appear from the news section of this site that southern St Lucia is well known as a 'dodgy' area . Do the ARC offer a briefing to crew on onward security ? If not perhaps they should .
I am very saddened by this tragic death
 
It is a most unfortunate incident and our sympathies are with the family.

However it hasn't always been a dodgy place and both Soufriere and Vieux Fort and a couple of other anchorages down that way have been regularly used by cruisers, particularly those wishing to pick up folks from the airport, or wishing to climb the Piton's. Clearly things have changed though, and the recent devastation caused by flooding before Christmas may also be a factor of desperate folks seeing cruisers as an easy target. We have visited St. Lucia regularly for the last three years and never felt at risk.

A sad, sad day.
 
A terrible, terrible and awful event but St Lucia has unfortunately been a hot bed of crime for many years! The problem is the the 'in your face' wealth created by the many visitors and what they bring. Obviously many benefit but most do not. The many luxury shopping malls, restaurants and the rest are such an extreme opposite for the folk that live in desperate and poor conditions that inevitably there is anger and resentment.
Crime levels in terms of boat robberies are high in Rodney Bay, Rodney Bay marina and lagoon, Souffriere - bat cave area especially - and the Pitons. Vieux Fort has always been a bad place. It is dangerous to go outside the marina in Rodney a Bay area at night. Charter companies, the ARC could bring pressure for more security, there was lots too late last week. these people need to stand up and shout. Cruisers should avoid.
 
A terrible, terrible and awful event but St Lucia has unfortunately been a hot bed of crime for many years! The problem is the the 'in your face' wealth created by the many visitors and what they bring. Obviously many benefit but most do not. The many luxury shopping malls, restaurants and the rest are such an extreme opposite for the folk that live in desperate and poor conditions that inevitably there is anger and resentment.
Crime levels in terms of boat robberies are high in Rodney Bay, Rodney Bay marina and lagoon, Souffriere - bat cave area especially - and the Pitons. Vieux Fort has always been a bad place. It is dangerous to go outside the marina in Rodney a Bay area at night. Charter companies, the ARC could bring pressure for more security, there was lots too late last week. these people need to stand up and shout. Cruisers should avoid.
 
There has been a long thread here about crime in St Lucia, most of it locals and drug related, same as Trinidad. Marine crime in St Lucia is low, you can check it at: http://www.safetyandsecuritynet.com/the-northern-windward-islands-martinique-st-lucia-barbados/ Scroll down for St Lucia. You will see boat crimes in St Lucia are: 2014 1 attempted theft, 2013 3 crimes, 2011 5 crimes. Hardly a hotbed of marine crimes and no reason why you shouldn't go there.

> Do the ARC offer a briefing to crew on onward security ? If not perhaps they should.

It's not practical for the ARC to do that, it's too complicated and they don't have the local knowledge. What they could do is add the URL of the Caribbean Safety and Security net to their information pack.
 
There appears to be a little confusion here.
!. You can walk outside Rodney Bay marina at night; but for people who do not know the area there is nothing there apart from a busy road and a few roadside cafes .
If you want to walk out from the marina , on your own at night, then wander around a poor urban area you will have problems; however I have never met anyone on a boat who does that sort of thing. For any one in the UK who knows some of the marinas in Portsmouth it is the same, why would you want to wander in a rough area when all you want is at the marina.
2. The ARC ,or World Cruising Club ,do give information about security.In 2007 and 2013 , the only two times I have sailed with them on the ARC they were making it clear that you need to be aware that the Caribbean is a beautiful place to sail ; but do as you do at home, lock your front door before you go to bed at night.
World Cruising Club knowledge and contacts in the area are better than most people; if you talk to any of the staff they are clear about what is safe and what is not a good idea.
If anyone is cruising or plans to cruise the Caribbean the locals are very keen to keep westerners safe and will tell anyone who asks the places that are not safe to go.

S
 
>World Cruising Club knowledge and contacts in the area are better than most people; if you talk to any of the staff they are clear about what is safe and what is not a good idea.

They do know what's safe and may have some knowledge of crime in St Lucia but they can't give advice about crime areas in (say) Grenada, Trinidad or Venezuela and their out islands. Hence my suggestion that they should include the URL of the Caribbean Safety and Security net in their briefing notes. Beyond that it's common sense such as you say don't wander around a poor area. The worst are the Barios (slums) in Venezuela. One cruiser made the mistake of walking through the Bario near the Puerto La Cruz marina. At gun point they stole his money, clothes and shoes leaving him to walk back in his underpants.
 
SimonJ said:
St Lucia has unfortunately been a hot bed of crime for many years!
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It is very noticeable that the poverty in the West Indies is concentrated in the former British colonies and far less in the French/Dutch islands. The most marked contrast is between Dominica and neighbouring Martinique.
 
snowleopard said:
It is very noticeable that the poverty in the West Indies is concentrated in the former British colonies and far less in the French/Dutch islands. The most marked contrast is between Dominica and neighbouring Martinique.
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Martinique is an oversea region of France and as such, along with all the other Caribbean French regions, part of the European Union; its currency is the Euro. France supports these regions in many ways, which reflects in their apparent affluence. Most conspicuous for that is St Barts, a very affluent area indeed.
 
A bit of a generalisation but Caribbean islands consistently comes second only to South Africa in most U.N. violent crime league tables, a notable exception being Cuba.
 
Malo37 said:
A bit of a generalisation but Caribbean islands consistently comes second only to South Africa in most U.N. violent crime league tables, a notable exception being Cuba.[/QUOouth Africa 33.8TE]

Not sure where you got that data? the list I found shows Cuba well down the list at 4.6 homicide per 100,000
South Africa 33.8 / Jamaica 52.1 / Venezuela 49 / US Virgins 39.2 / St Kitts Nevis 38.2 / Trinidad 35 / Bahamas 28 / St Lucia 25.2 / Dominican Republic 24.9

I was most careful in Basseterre, Trinidad and Venezuela especially in quiet anchorages and more commercial docks like Basseterre in the centre of town, but the actual statistics put Jamaica, US Virgins, St Kitts and Nevis, Trinidad and Tobago and Bahamas above St Lucia in terms of homicide per 100,000. Seeing as most homicide are committed by people known to the assailant I believe, the risks are still pretty low.

We went out to local poor bars and clubs in St Lucia and met many great (and very poor) locals, some wonderful people. We also did clubing and bars in Margharita where you handed in your guns as you entered the night clubs, now that had me worried.

Interestingly Martinique and Antigua and Barbuda are well down the list.

You can see the stats here http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/oct/10/world-murder-rate-unodc

You're an easy target on a boat so just be careful, be aware and talk to locals and police for advice.
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>A bit of a generalisation but Caribbean islands consistently comes second only to South Africa in most U.N. violent crime league tables, a notable exception being Cuba.

It is definitely a generalisation the great majority of murders in the Caribbean are in Venezuela and Trinidad involving drug gangs. As I keep pointing boat crime is relatively low in the island chain as witnessed by www.safetyandsecuriynet.com. I keep mentioning it but few seem to look at it. The UN figures are murder not violent crime, total murder rates by country have nothing to with boat crime.
 
KellysEye said:
>A bit of a generalisation but Caribbean islands consistently comes second only to South Africa in most U.N. violent crime league tables, a notable exception being Cuba.

It is definitely a generalisation the great majority of murders in the Caribbean are in Venezuela and Trinidad involving drug gangs. As I keep pointing boat crime is relatively low in the island chain as witnessed by www.safetyandsecuriynet.com. I keep mentioning it but few seem to look at it. The UN figures are murder not violent crime, total murder rates by country have nothing to with boat crime.
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Hi Mike,
I agree the safety and security site is a positive resource, but not 100% sure all boat incidents actually do get reported onto it.
You may recall we got close to some action in St Vincent in 2007, and in speaking with the young coppers who came out on their RIB, I was surpsied when they quietly told me of several other similar serious incidents in the preceding months. Of course they may have been telling fibbies, but back then I could not find anything about those other incidents anywhere on the web.........
JOHN
 
KellysEye said:
> The UN figures are murder not violent crime, total murder rates by country have nothing to with boat crime.
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Murder is violent crime and the statistics reflect how dangerous a country might be in relation to getting beaten up or someone pulling a gun or knife. Being aware is part of not getting into trouble. Countries with higher homicide rates are in my opinion a bit more lawless and the value of life is less, so you act accordingly. What you decide on as dangerous or acceptable risk is down to your own judgement. There is nowhere in the Caribbean I would not go but there are some places I would take precautions.
 
snowleopard said:
It is very noticeable that the poverty in the West Indies is concentrated in the former British colonies and far less in the French/Dutch islands. The most marked contrast is between Dominica and neighbouring Martinique.
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Could that be because we gave them independence earlier than the French?
 
3 of our crew mugged within 4 hours of arrival at Rodney Bay in 1999. Is this a record! Dodgy taxi arranged by a member of the Marina Bar staff. Driven to a side road and whacked about with a machette and relieved of watches and wallets! On the other hand, on the Sunday in daylight we wandered amongst the Shanty town and met some pleasant locals at the Church there. What was noticeable was the number of very large 4x4s parked outside the sheds! Most likely paid for by the drug trade.
 
Seven Spades said:
I wonder if the locals are clamouring for independence or if they are happy being part of France.
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When I was anchored off Martinique in 2010 and chatted to some locals sitting out at a harbourside café, they were most content with the administrative situation. But then they, and many other inhabitants, they informed me, were retirees from mainland France. As I first wrote in post #9, France subsidises all the overseas areas to a large degree - I was amazed to find while provisioning, bottles of good French wine, unlikely to be cheaply transported so far, less expensive than I can buy in a discount store in neighbouring Switzerland.
 
Swagman said:
You may recall we got close to some action in St Vincent in 2007, and in speaking with the young coppers who came out on their RIB, I was surpsied when they quietly told me of several other similar serious incidents in the preceding months.
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Hmm. We're leaving for two weeks charter in the Grenadines on Saturday. Not trying to dwell on this too much but Doyle's seems to give a reasonable idea about where we should be careful.
 
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