"Sorry You Were Spoken Over!" Duplex 80 - Simplex 72 Rant

[RogerRat]

How many times have you noticed when you 're heading into somewhere popular like Cowes or Hamble river. In both cases, it's wall to wall marinas all standing by on Channel 80. What a crazy choice? Or is it just tradition?

Being Duplex, when you select the channel, you don't necessarily hear anyone because they may be transmitting. Then when you make a call the marina replies, "Sorry, station calling, please repeat last as you were over spoken."

Now in these cases, you could get over spoken by another vessel because most of them hail from too far out on 25 Watts which blanks you out if you're transmitting on low power from a hand held unit. Wouldn't channels 73 & 77 be easier for east and west Cowes for example?

Summary ​

Primary Intership Working Channels: 06, 08, 09, 10, 13, 15, 17, 67, 69, 72, 73, 77 - these are worth knowing so that if another vessel calls you, you can swiftly nominate a working channel from within this group. In practice you should only use channels NOT shared with port operations. These are 06, 08, 72 and 77.

UK Coastguard use channels 10, 23, 67, 73, 84, 86

UK Marinas use channel 80 or M1 (37)

UK Yacht Clubs use M1 (37) & M2

BRITISH & IRISH VHF MARINE CHANNEL LIST - http://www.coastalradio.org.uk/freqlists/vhfmarinebases.pdf used by various ports and estuaries as well as marinas.

Channel information for http://www.waterways.org.uk/pdf/vhf_guidance is included in Appendix A & B of this info from British Waterways.

For details on licencing and use of marine VHF, see the http://www.ukseakayakguidebook.co.uk/almanac_vhf.htm in the Almanac.

* RYA have confirmed this to be the correct protocol (by email 17 May 2011) following query in this http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=77378. There seem to be numerous "guides on VHF usage" on the web which suggest (incorrectly) it is the calling station who nominate the working channel.

Click http://www.ukseakayakguidebook.co.uk/short_articles/marine_vhf_channels.pdf to download a .PDF version of this page.

There are so many frequecies that are available and under utilised denoted as 'Primary Intership Working Channels.' Yet the Marinas nearly all use Duplex 80. Why not let use some of the other primary working channels?

While I'm at it - 'UK Yacht Clubs use M1 (37) & M2' (above)

Not in the Solent, they don't, every weekend through the summer and some winter series too, you can hear them 'Broadcasting' Lat & Long positions of marks followed later by 10min, 5min and Starting horns. If you dare to have a conversation while they are intending to start broadcasting again they will come on and tell you that it's a channel reserved for yacht racing!!!

How crazy is that?

 

[Stork_III]

If you set main set to 80 and a handheld to 80 on US channel set, you'll be able to hear both sides of 80 use.

 

[prof pat pending]

There seem to be numerous "guides on VHF usage" on the web which suggest (incorrectly) it is the calling station who nominate the working channel.

One of the multi choice questions in the RYA VHF exam is also worded this way

 

[nigelmercier]

There seem to be numerous "guides on VHF usage" on the web which suggest (incorrectly) it is the calling station who nominate the working channel...

Perhaps because it is clearly more sensible, and is the way that Amateur Radio works. I didn't believe it when I was told the "correct" procedure.

 

[l'escargot]

...Wouldn't channels 73 & 77 be easier for east and west Cowes for example? ...

73 is used by Solent & Portland Coastguard and 77 is used by the water taxis in the Solent, which channels do you think they should move to? Having 2 channels in Cowes wouldn't be that easy either with 2 marinas in Cowes and 2/3 in East Cowes. As soon as you introduce different channels for different marinas, confusion reigns as it is likely that 90% of visitors arriving won't know the correct channel.

...There are so many frequecies that are available and under utilised denoted as 'Primary Intership Working Channels.' Yet the Marinas nearly all use Duplex 80. Why not let use some of the other primary working channels...

Because communications with marinas aren't intership? You will find many frequencies even if under utilised have a local designation such as tugs, ferries, ports etc.

 

[RogerRat]

73 is used by Solent & Portland Coastguard and 77 is used by the water taxis in the Solent, which channels do you think they should move to? Having 2 channels in Cowes wouldn't be that easy either with 2 marinas in Cowes and 2/3 in East Cowes. As soon as you introduce different channels for different marinas, confusion reigns as it is likely that 90% of visitors arriving won't know the correct channel.

Because communications with marinas aren't intership? You will find many frequencies even if under utilised have a local designation such as tugs, ferries, ports etc.

Yes true and accepted, 73 is used less than 67 tho, and 77 is often limited to low power on many sets, which is good.

The confusion probably would appear a little like changing from driving on the left to driving on the right I suppose. Still, there could be use of M1 M2?

Stork_III, thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a try.

 

[l'escargot]

...Stork_III, thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a try.

Just remember to change your handheld back before using it to call up for a berth

 

[Scubadoo]

Yep Cowes can be a nightmare to call up any of the marinas, if there is too much radio traffic particularly in peak season, I just end up using my mobile - a lot quicker or look for the berthing boat. I also have one radio set to USA so I can hear both sides of the conversation, that can help.

 

[RogerRat]

Just remember to change your handheld back before using it to call up for a berth

I was planning to hail on the base unit set on Int. channels, but thanks.
RR

 

[prv]

The whole VHF channel plan could do with an overhaul from scratch - vast swathes of it are reserved for duplex telephone link calls which nobody uses any more (indeed in the UK there are no longer any Coast Radio Stations so the option doesn't exist). The problem is that it's all defined by international agreements which would take a lot of effort to change, so the radio authorities have never bothered. If you also want to de-duplex most of them (which would make sense) then you need to reprogram everybody's radios too...

Shore stations generally only have a license to use one (or a small number of) channels, and if Ofcom says "you're a marina, your allocated channel is 80" then they don't have any choice in the matter. I do think it was a daft decision to allocate a duplex channel as "the marina channel", but the trouble is that there aren't very many channels in the international plan which aren't duplex!

Looking at the Ofcom channel list ( http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra264/ra264.htm ) I wonder if they should have picked 75 instead. It's one of the interstitial channels (the ones they inserted between existing ones when they halved the frequency spacing) either side of Ch16 and therefore recommended for 1-watt use only, just in case you're also overlapping onto 16. I guess modern equipment is far more precise than when that recommendation was made, but most sets still switch to 1W on those two channels. Since people should probably be within 1W range before calling a marina anyway, this would work well and reduce the amount of overlap (though not in Cowes where they're all next door to each other).

Pete