Some fierce tides today...definitely wouldn't want to capsize in the moorings!

[HenryEDM]

A glorious day in north Wales today but with about 3 knots of tide running through the outer moorings these guys got themselves into a bit of a pickle. They were very good humoured as we motored past taking photos but it did take them a while to get untangled. Hopefully they only damaged their pride.

 

[[70521]]

The weather was clearly better than down South, spend a cool gloomy afternoon on the boat.

 

[fireball]

Last time I capsized and tangled in a mooring (fortunately empty) I broke my mast in two places.
Unfortunately it was before the race started and I'd only been on the water for a minute at most...

 

[jimi]

yeah launcing and landing always worst .. especially if mainsheet gets tangled or fankle with centreboard or rudder rigged wrong ;-)


I've embarassed myself immediately post launch on a few occasions ;-)

 

[fireball]

yeah launcing and landing always worst .. especially if mainsheet gets tangled or fankle with centreboard or rudder rigged wrong ;-)


I've embarassed myself immediately post launch on a few occasions ;-)

This was a stupid error - new crew (experienced though) - he was in the middle clipping the dagger board on, the main was out but jib cleated - I didn't have enough weight to balance the boat in a gust and over we went - the current caught the main (perpendicular to the current) and swept us into a mooring ... All over before we started

 

[TSB240]

A glorious day in north Wales today but with about 3 knots of tide running through the outer moorings these guys got themselves into a bit of a pickle. They were very good humoured as we motored past taking photos but it did take them a while to get untangled. Hopefully they only damaged their pride.

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I was supposed to be out sailing Sunday but was called away from PD to visit an 18 hour old granddaughter!

IMHO there is something going wrong with the way the support and training boats from Plas Menai and PDSC operate.

First they should be alert to the problems and potential for injury or damage in sending youngsters through moorings with an Asymmetric rigged.

Secondly they should always have more than one person on a support or safety boat.

They should have radio comms! and they need to keep an eye on the back of the fleet not the front.

I observed a Topper getting into trouble a few weeks ago (very much windier!) He tried to attract the attention of the support boat using the well recognized international signal for at least 10 minutes! I kept him under observation and realized that he was getting more panicky as he was being blown and bounced hard up against the harbour wall. I tried calling on 16 to alert the Support boat with no response. I rigged our biggest balloon fenders and put our boat up against the wall after throwing him a line to stop him jumping ship and getting flushed down tide!

Larry in the CHT speed patrol rib was observant of both radio traffic and of need for assistance!

Next time It will be call to the CG to sort it out!

 

[fireball]

I was supposed to be out sailing Sunday but was called away from PD to visit an 18 hour old granddaughter!

IMHO there is something going wrong with the way the support and training boats from Plas Menai and PDSC operate.

First they should be alert to the problems and potential for injury or damage in sending youngsters through moorings with an Asymmetric rigged.

Secondly they should always have more than one person on a support or safety boat.

They should have radio comms! and they need to keep an eye on the back of the fleet not the front.

I observed a Topper getting into trouble a few weeks ago (very much windier!) He tried to attract the attention of the support boat using the well recognized international signal for at least 10 minutes! I kept him under observation and realized that he was getting more panicky as he was being blown and bounced hard up against the harbour wall. I tried calling on 16 to alert the Support boat with no response. I rigged our biggest balloon fenders and put our boat up against the wall after throwing him a line to stop him jumping ship and getting flushed down tide!

Larry in the CHT speed patrol rib was observant of both radio traffic and of need for assistance!

Next time It will be call to the CG to sort it out!

1st - I agree - that should apply to all safety boat crews
2nd - I agree - one person to drive and at least one other to assist - quite often the safety boat helm can manage and do everything, but sometimes at least one more pair of hands are required - if nothing else they should be able to extricate the casualty whilst the helm keeps the safety boat clear of danger
3rd - radio comms is usually not on channel 16 - around here we use a mix of private channels and Chl 37/M
4th - the back of the fleet isn't always where the trouble will be - you do get less experienced people in fast boats too.

I don't know if you were witnessing a race or a training course, eitherway not good that the support boat(s?) hadn't spotted the boat in trouble. With racing boats that can happen quite easily as the faster boats disappear off leaving the support boats with a huge area to cover - that's when the knowledge of the ability of those racing comes into play to know where you've got to look.
If it was a training course then unless the support boat(s) were inundated then that is very poor form and I'd want that reported to the training centre - the duty of care is far higher than in racing (generally).

 

[emsworthy]

1st - I agree - that should apply to all safety boat crews
2nd - I agree - one person to drive and at least one other to assist - quite often the safety boat helm can manage and do everything, but sometimes at least one more pair of hands are required - if nothing else they should be able to extricate the casualty whilst the helm keeps the safety boat clear of danger
3rd - radio comms is usually not on channel 16 - around here we use a mix of private channels and Chl 37/M
4th - the back of the fleet isn't always where the trouble will be - you do get less experienced people in fast boats too.

I don't know if you were witnessing a race or a training course, eitherway not good that the support boat(s?) hadn't spotted the boat in trouble. With racing boats that can happen quite easily as the faster boats disappear off leaving the support boats with a huge area to cover - that's when the knowledge of the ability of those racing comes into play to know where you've got to look.
If it was a training course then unless the support boat(s) were inundated then that is very poor form and I'd want that reported to the training centre - the duty of care is far higher than in racing (generally).

... and that looks like a couple of youngish (12-13) teenagers on an RS Feva neither of whom appear to be making any attempt to right the boat. Either because they dont really know how or perhaps (hopefully) they know the mess the top of their mast will make of the Bavaria's topsides as it comes up! Either way they really need external assistance to pull them away from the mooring and it should come from their club patrol boat.

 

[onesea]

Maybe its me but:

1, 2, 3 & 4 Agree to all but then...

Oh come on they are kids they went for a play put the spinnaker up and got it wrong. It happens.

If there is only a couple of boats and one rescue boat as long as they are capable they should manage. Better to have kids afloat than being told sorry mr x did not come today you cannot go sailing, if there is a large discrepancy or weather foul its different...

Like many around here I grew up without many safety boats we survived I am sure I sailed my cadet of that beach one straights fortnight.... I can remember the day I capsized of Menai in the cadet heading rapidly towards Menai Bridge I am sure my crew does :ambivalence:. Then the launch was there pretty quick and once we righted ourselves saved a long beat back to Beaumaris.

 

[savageseadog]

... and that looks like a couple of youngish (12-13) teenagers on an RS Feva neither of whom appear to be making any attempt to right the boat. Either because they dont really know how or perhaps (hopefully) they know the mess the top of their mast will make of the Bavaria's topsides as it comes up! .

I would say that righting the boat without assistance would be impossible due to the current.

 

[HenryEDM]

I would say that righting the boat without assistance would be impossible due to the current.

Quite right. The boat was pinned hard to the mooring with the rig being dragged against the mooring tackle by the strong tide. This happened after the day's racing when most of the dinghies were already ashore, the winners probably on their third pint. There seemed to be only one safety boat still out to keep an eye on stragglers and those continuing to potter, however as you may be able see from the first pic, and as TSB240 has mentioned, there was only one person in it. He was on standby in case things became serious but was unable to pull them off on his own. I went past onto my own mooring further up with the intention of heading back in my inflatable to help out but by then they had others helping and after a while got the boat free. I think that some of the less experienced sailors do need to be more aware of the potential dangers of executing risky manoeuvres in the moorings, especially when the tide is running strong, but I know the club don't encourage their rookies to do so. I guess the youngsters just see the experienced guys doing it and think they can get away with it too. Mind you ten minutes after I took these pics, two lads on a 49er capsized gybing about ten feet from my mooring, caught the mast on the next mooring down as they were swept past and very nearly ended up in the same predicament

 

[fireball]

... and that looks like a couple of youngish (12-13) teenagers on an RS Feva neither of whom appear to be making any attempt to right the boat.

and I was commenting on post about a different occasion.