Solutions

Assassin

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In a response to Firefly's thread I thought it may be useful to provide a simple and common sense solution to the immigrant issue, please feel free to add, amend, or contradict whatever is said so we can provide a simple and common sense solution to this issue; if we have some legal experts on here then there input would be invaluable, and if we provide a workable solution then hopefully it can be made sticky so it can be downloaded and printed off.

I have based my ideas solely upon the Common Law system of the UK which asks a simple question "what would a normal person do exactly the same circumstances" so those in other jurisdictions having other requirements can add their own amendments for that jurisdiction.

1) If you come across such a vessel then you are required to render assistance, nothing is apparently defined as to what assistance is so I would work on the presumption of saving life comes over and above saving a stricken vessel. I would stand off and try to contact the vessel using VHF while others could prepare, and if they do not respond then I would put out a call to other vessels in the area to come and assist, basically safety in numbers, and then an emergency call to the coastguard to make them aware.

2) Monitor the vessel while standing off, is the vessel listing and obviously taking on water, are their engine/s running or not, is there smoke or an obvious fire aboard, or is there anything apparently wrong with the vessel or people on board. Use your gut instinct and trust it.

3) If they obviously need assistance you can do a couple of things: take your longest rope and tie a couple of fenders to one end of the rope and the other end to a strong towing point on your vessel and if they need a tow you pay your rope out astern until it is at full stretch, if they are sinking or afire then replace your fenders with your tender or liferaft and pay the rope out until it is at full stretch. Make a pass of the craft from bow to stern, or stern to bow while standing off sufficiently to avoid putting yourself, craft or crew in danger, and once well past the bow or stern then heel your craft hard over across their bow or stern so it pulls the rope across their craft so they can grab the fenders for a tow, or grab the liferaft and hold it alongside their craft while they climb aboard.

4) if possible, light up their craft with as much light as you can throw at them as this indicates the area other vessels may be coming to, and it makes it easier for you to see anything untoward, if you pay out a line then ensure someone is with it and anyone with it has a sharp knife with them so they can cut the line if anything untoward happens.

5) If you pay out a line to tow another vessel, or secure a liferaft then inform other vessels by VHF that you have done this and what your intentions are; you are going to tow their vessel ashore, or you have people in the liferaft, that you are going to tow them ashore; and if possible get another vessel to stand to port or starboard and slightly astern of either the towed vessel or liferaft and light them up also as another pair of eyes is additional insurance for you and your vessel.

6) Why stand off? if they have a genuine incident such as a fire, you don't want to be to close as most craft will have flammable materials aboard such as fuel for an engine or gas for cooking, even on sailing vessels and if they go bang you are far enough away to keep your vessel as safe as possible, even if your vessel incurs some battle scars; and if they are sinking they may create sufficient vortices to drag your craft under; and if you are too close they may throw something at your vessel and if that is something hot or flammable then this could sink your vessel. If they do try to board your vessel then you can open your throttles and speed clear while your other crew member cuts the rope and sets their vessel, or your liferaft adrift.

These are my suggestions; you have rendered assistance, you have put life over property, you have them in a safer scenario that they were, and you haven't had them aboard your vessel and potentially put yourself or your family/crew or vessel in danger.
 
Well if the Mods don’t make it a sticky you could always try to get it publishished in the Daily Mail....

Does anyone have numbers on the amount of attacks, attempted or otherwise carried out by migrants in the Med or other areas in Europe?

There are attacks carried out on Migrant Boats by far right extremists:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...-raises-50000-target-refugee-rescue-boats-med

But of course the poor souls fleeing conflict and risking their lives do not have a forum on which to debate ‘how deal with the Far Right Problem’.

For balance I would urge anyone taking these threads seriously to google
‘Migrant attacks boat’ the returns from that search are surely lamentable and might serve to put worried minds to rest.

I’m an immigrant, I left the UK on June 24th 2016 - thanks for reminding me why.
 
Well if the Mods don’t make it a sticky you could always try to get it publishished in the Daily Mail....

Does anyone have numbers on the amount of attacks, attempted or otherwise carried out by migrants in the Med or other areas in Europe?

There are attacks carried out on Migrant Boats by far right extremists:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...-raises-50000-target-refugee-rescue-boats-med

But of course the poor souls fleeing conflict and risking their lives do not have a forum on which to debate ‘how deal with the Far Right Problem’.

For balance I would urge anyone taking these threads seriously to google
‘Migrant attacks boat’ the returns from that search are surely lamentable and might serve to put worried minds to rest.

I’m an immigrant, I left the UK on June 24th 2016 - thanks for reminding me why.

+1000

and I agree with J. we DONT need such threads, unless we are talking Med crossing of poor ppl in unseaworthy inflatables with orangy-red coloured life jacket look a likes that get to the bottom of the sea if they get wet dragging the poor guys with them (most of them cannot swim...)
I also learnt that I should be weary of any bloody foreigner not speaking Greek in our waters, so I might as well stay aside and try to contact them with VHF (that's a massive joke right?)
Then I can call coastguard which will (if they bother) turn up in an hour or so depending where we are.
OK, I'll do that, thanks for widening my horizons!
[tongue in cheek of course, but I think it's WAY OTT]

cheers

V.
 
I got the impression from Firefly's thread that he was dealing with thieves, not migrants, albeit they may have been migrants that was secondary and in no way indicative that all migrants are thieves.
 
+1000

and I agree with J. we DONT need such threads, unless we are talking Med crossing of poor ppl in unseaworthy inflatables with orangy-red coloured life jacket look a likes that get to the bottom of the sea if they get wet dragging the poor guys with them (most of them cannot swim...)
I also learnt that I should be weary of any bloody foreigner not speaking Greek in our waters, so I might as well stay aside and try to contact them with VHF (that's a massive joke right?)
Then I can call coastguard which will (if they bother) turn up in an hour or so depending where we are.
OK, I'll do that, thanks for widening my horizons!
[tongue in cheek of course, but I think it's WAY OTT]

cheers

V.

Interesting Vas , but that’s not how it’s always been in your at your end of the Med , permit me to explain?

In the early 80 ,s one summer I found myself camping in an olive grove off a beach next to a small beautiful fishing village on the NE tip of Corfu .
I,d sprained an ankle ( looked after by nuns in the local convent ) so basically unable to walk until it healed .
There was a rather nice navel patrol boat say 60-70 ft moored in the basic port which caught my eye .
I was watching it .
Every evening about dusk crew arrived and brought fresh ammunition for the two General Purpose Machine Guns ( GPMG,s ) and proceeded to load them then slip lines as darkness fell .
Every morning it was back on its berth .
Innocently I thought perhaps some sort of reservist / TA / RNR kinda summer exercise or reservist drill night , but it went on for 3 weeks every night .
One day as got more mobile i hobbled to the quay and entered into a conversation as they arrived .Capt s EN was good .
I noticed they had 1 in 5 tracer rounds in the belts as they were loading the GPMG , s .I noticed looking at the gas plugs the guns had been cleaned pretty well .Next morning they were late arriving back I was there sat in a ring side seat .
Said hello and noticed the gas plugs were pretty filthy ( so the guns had had a plenty of rounds through ) .
Intrigued I asked what they were shooting at ?

Albanians came back the answer !

Turns out they went out every PM and deterred Albanians from crossing the sea to Corfu .I understand they just shot them in the water !
With it being summer some try and swim or rubber dinghy, tyre inner tube etc .

Not sure what WAS the geopolitical situation with Greece and Albanians back then ?

Felt like I was in a unreported world .Back then EU had 7 ( sides to 50 p piece ) members .No social media etc , etc .

Fast fwd nearly 40 years how ever times have changed .
Huge Irony and sadness today .

Perhaps Vas can update us on the current relationship between Albania and Greece ?
 
I got the impression from Firefly's thread that he was dealing with thieves, not migrants, albeit they may have been migrants that was secondary and in no way indicative that all migrants are thieves.

Indeed, I didn't think they had sailed there way to the Hamble, in fact rather the opposite.

I find deep sadness in reading reports of small dinghy's being found mid channel in the depths of winter, incredible human desperation and a hope of better.
 
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Reply to Portofino.
In the late 80s we were staying on Paxos, the Albanians were crossing at night, then breaking into properties and stealing anything of value, we were staying at Logos (spelling) the locals were warning the tourists not to leave anything in the apartments whilst unattended, the coastguard boat was very active, no steaming lights at night, but you could certainly hear it patrolling. we did not re visit until some years later, everything seemed ok then.
 
I got the impression from Firefly's thread that he was dealing with thieves, not migrants, albeit they may have been migrants that was secondary and in no way indicative that all migrants are thieves.

Yes - I appreciate that. My rant was in relation to this thread and the other titled, ‘Migrant Problems’ http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?512110-Migrant-Problems

It would be good to read the conclusion to Firefly’s story.
 
This is a bit of a misguided thread tbh Assassin. English common law (and its derivatives or cousins in other countries) generally creates right not obligations. In some very limited cases there is a common law tort of failing to rescue but it doesn't apply generally where there is no nexus between the imperilled person and the would-be rescuer, and it most certainly imposes no obligation to rescue someone from a position that they have voluntarily put themselves in.

In contrast, many countries have a statutory obligation to rescue, including countries that boaters on here sail in (france, for example) but to debate that topic requires knowledge of the relevant law and it won't follow English common law.

The English law obligation to help someone in trouble at sea does not derive from common law. It derives from UK implementation of SOLAS conventions, which means it is English statutory law. A big aspect of it is that it imposes the obligation to rescue (such as it is; it isn't unlimited, by the way) even someone who has voluntarily put themselves in danger.

To state the obvious this is not all about law. There are human kindness/moral obligations relevant here too. I'm just commenting above on the legal aspects above but legal points are far from everything here. But I gotta say that I agree with very little of your point 1-6 imho. For starters I very much doubt you can tow a liferaft without actually sinking it.
 
To state the obvious this is not all about law. There are human kindness/moral obligations relevant here too. I'm just commenting above on the legal aspects above but legal points are far from everything here.


Regarding simple acts of human kindness, I’m at anchor in Marigot Bay, Santa Lucia; a place that certain noonsite contributors would have you believe you need to bolt down your cutlery for fear of it being robbed by the ‘locals’.

So when the Dutch flagged catamaran in front of us had its tender come free and drift off out to the mouth of the bay it was with much interest that I watched a ‘local’ boat with two Rastafarians aboard, race out in their dinghy, tie up the loose tender and tow it back to the catamaran and tie it back up, (Properly).

This happened around 2 hours ago and has very much helped lift my spirits after getting wound up by these shitty threads.

Just stop being so scared for heavens sake, it’s no way to live.
 
Hardly classed as an Immigrant, more of a global tourist lol;) :encouragement: Get that cruise report up ASAP! :cool:

:) well we made sure to get our Portuguese Residency before we headed off...
I’m getting there with the report but the blasted swimming, sunbathing and cocktails are getting in the way ;) I do have a funny 10 second video from the ARC starting line that I need to post....
 
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:encouragement::encouragement:

And big congratulations on crossing the pond:D

Thanks John, I’m now firmly in the Mapism NOMDB camp in terms of doing it again but as a once in a lifetime experience it was something I am happy to have done; it’s the Queen Mary for us from now on. Didn’t help that our crew were bat shit crazy but that’s for another thread ;)
 
I’m at anchor in Marigot Bay, Santa Lucia; a place that certain noonsite contributors would have you believe you need to bolt down your cutlery for fear of it being robbed by the ‘locals’.

Just stop being so scared for heavens sake, it’s no way to live.

Please be a little scared. It’s not a low crime area and much less safe than Europe for boaters. I was burgled in Rodney Bay nearby and worse things have happened to others.
 
Please be a little scared. It’s not a low crime area and much less safe than Europe for boaters. I was burgled in Rodney Bay nearby and worse things have happened to others.

Well can we agree that one needs to be sensible? I really do believe that fear is often a construct and while I understand that the crime rate in St Lucia is high for the region it is mostly involving residents and likely avoidable. Sorry to hear of your problem.

In our travel over the last 24 months, from Falmouth to the Caribbean we have been very lucky; friends of friends had a dinghy stolen in Les Sable but other than that I can’t think of another issue that has impacted us or our circle. We leave St Lucia tomorrow as we head north to the BVI - we will have very fond memories of the generosity extended to us by the folk we have met. I hope that I’m not coming off as self righteous or arrogant, (I’m becoming insufferably liberal as I get older), and for context, I’ve just set my cockpit proximity alarms and PIR lights before I go below..
 
Extreme comment, not boat related, sorry...

Reminds me of a female friend who routinely would walk through a park at 2am which was well known for dangerous attacks and I believe a few bodies turning up.

"I've never had any problems with it"
"Yeah, because you only get killed once"

Don't be scared to go out. But be sensible when you do.
 
Extreme comment, not boat related, sorry...

Reminds me of a female friend who routinely would walk through a park at 2am which was well known for dangerous attacks and I believe a few bodies turning up.

"I've never had any problems with it"
"Yeah, because you only get killed once"

Don't be scared to go out. But be sensible when you do.
Of course She could of said ...

" What's the chances of two psychopathic murderers meeting in the same park at the same time, same night !"
 
Of course She could of said ...

" What's the chances of two psychopathic murderers meeting in the same park at the same time, same night !"

[FONT=&quot]You should never tell a psychopath they’re a psychopath. It upsets them.[/FONT]
 
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