Soltron / Startron / Xbee: explaination

[Anonymous]

Re: Xbee: scientific data

Thank you for getting back to this thread. The key issue for yachtsmen is bacterial growth where there is water in the fuel. Certain bacteria, in quantity, can cause blockages in filters and injectors.

Looking at your 'Intertek Analyses Chalon' results pop-up, it is not stated which bacteria were present and being counted, and what were the laboratory conditions (e.g. quantity tested, number of samples, temperatures during trial). It is not possible to infer anything from the test results you have published, without further details of the trials. In particular, I would like to know how the initial colonisation occurred in each of these trials - naturally or artificially, and (of course) which bacteria. Were the yeast and mold trials in the same samples or were these all trialled separately? How did the initial yeast and mould contamination occur?

Many thanks.

 

[Xbee]

Xbee: bacterial growth

Answers to your questions:

1 ) The bacteria were not specifically identified.
2 ) Samples: one sample of fuel has been extracted from a standard storage tank, artificially contaminated by the Analysis Laboratory Engineers. Then the sample has been cut in two halves each treated at 4000:1 and 500:1 respectively.
3 ) Temperature: 25°C (+/-2°C).
4 ) Trials: Bacteria, Yeast and Mold trials were operated on the same samples, the target of the experience for the engineers was to check what Xbee can do in one of the poorest fuels ever . . . you should never encounter such a bad fuel during your whole life.

The complete report is a four-page document including tables and graphs. You will understand that I can not reproduce it in this forum nor we can show it in our web site. Yet, I am totally ready to send it to you by email or by postal mail as per your convenience. You will have all the answers to your questions and details of the engineer to be called in case of enquiry about the report.

Please, feel free to ask by email at ronan.pennec@xbee.com.

And thank you for your interest.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth

Thank you for your reply. I would like to know what the bacteria were - presumably this was identified when they did the count and should be available as a matter of course. Are you claiming that the product is bactericidal per se or that it reduces bacteria by making the environment less favourable to those bacteria? Bearing in mind that different bacteria thrive in very different circumstances, this is a key issue.

For example, some bacteria might be completely harmless to marine engines and fuel systems yet others can cause problems. It is essential that the product is proven to reduce un-friendly bacteria, not just unspecified 'bacteria'.

 

[Xbee]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth

The fact is that Xbee is not bactericidal as you mention. Xbee effect is a soft cleaning of the fuel: the enzymes prevent bacteria to grow and multiply by breaking their bonds to each other. Xbee keeps every (up to now at least) microbiological cells as very small parts to be burnt with the rest of the fuel instead of growing, sticking to the tanks and plugging the filters.

Please, read the following document: http://www.xbee.com/doc/uk/uk_bibus.pdf. That is a testimony from a bus company that had a lot of troubles caused by bacteria and that used Xbee to get rid of them. There is a picture illustrating the way Xbee works (there are bacteria in both glasses, but one is treated with Xbee and the cells can not bind to each other).

Keep in mind that the Intertek lab is highly appreciated by all and every petroleum companies and I guess they did not choose the 'harmless' bacteria to be studied.

Anyway, I've contacted the engineer to get more details about the type of bacteria used in the experiment.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth

That link does not work with my browser - I get 'error 404 not found'. I look forward to hearing the feedback from your engineer. Maybe you could ask you engineer to take part in this discussion thread as I am sure there are questions that others would like to ask.

Many thanks for your help in getting to the bottom of this contentious subject.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth

Thank you for the pm but I would prefer to keep this subject in the public sector. I often read pdf files in my present version of IE so I suspect that the problem is with your website, not my browser. In any case, I am at anchor via an intermittent wifi connection so I would not attempt to download any large software or attempt a major install under these circumstances. As I said, I view all sorts of things online and this is the first time anyone has asked me to update my browser to view a pdf file. Many thanks for your help.

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth

The problem is with the website. 404 file not found, is not a pdf problem

 

[Xbee]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth

That was just a suggestion, no offense. I just talked to our server maintenance company and everything is fine on their part too. This is so a technical problem we can not resolve, sorry about that.

 

[pvb]

It doesn\'t work because...

The link doesn't work because it's got a stray full stop at the end. If you click on the link, get the 404 message, then delete the last full stop in the address bar and refresh, you'll see the pdf load without problems.

 

[Captain Coochie]

Re: It doesn\'t work because...

They probably thought the full stop was a stray microbiological cell /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth

Thanks pvb, managed to read the file. Xbee, that isn't really what I would call documentary evidence. The consumption graphs have no scales so are completely meaningless and the pictures of dirty fuel mean nothing in isolation. This is really is not even a step in the right direction. We always seem to end up having this sort of discussion when it comes to fuel additives - it is supported by nothing more than puff.

These products are very expensive and it seems to me that instead of putting all that expensive additive into fuel it would be less expensive and more effective to have an engineer fit a dirt take-off into the tank, with small pump. That way you can take off any water and muck quickly and easily every few weeks. For only the cost of another couple of bottles of additive you could also add a high performance filter such as a Separ.

 

[Xbee]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth

As I have written, this is a testimony. The technical data are in the R&D page of the web site. And if you think that even those data are meaningless, a puff, then nothing will never convince you . . . You have more evidence today of Xbee working in your engine than for the fuels you're using in your every day boat, car, motorbike or whatever.

But anyway, one more time, I did not come back in the forum to sell my stuff. I just promised months ago that I would inform you when the scientific proofs of what we claimed were online and this is what I did.

You have all the right not to believe in the product, just do not put down others' work without knowing every detail of the story please.

Regards to all.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth

[ QUOTE ]
I just promised months ago that I would inform you when the scientific proofs of what we claimed were online and this is what I did.

[/ QUOTE ]It is scientific information that I am hoping to see. Only the bacteria trial seems to be directly relevant to the market (leaving any performance claims as a separate issue) and there is not as yet enough information to fairly describe the data as 'scientific'.

Maybe others here (and there are many scientists and engineers who take part in this forum including at least one who has been contributing to this tread) are happy that there is enough information to support the claims, but I am not. I shall wait for your engineer's input and would be particularly impressed if you would allow him or her to participate directly in this discussion.

Thank you for keeping the thing going, though, and hopefully we will get to the bottom of it all to everyone's satisfaction.

 

[Xbee]

Xbee: bacterial growth - standby

Dear Lemain,

I think the other tests results presented in our web pages are also relevant to the market but it's true that we do not all have the same priorities: yours being the bacterial growth.

Please, be sure that I am not the one to allow or not this Intertek laboratory engineer to participate in this discussion. I have nothing to tell him, he decides wether or not he wants to get in . . . Anyway, I let him know about that discussion, but the decision is his.

I am still waiting for his answer concerning the names of the bacteria implied in the test. I will keep you posted as soon as I can.

 

[Xbee]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth - Intertek answer

I finally received the anwser concerning your bacteria denomination enquiry. This is a list of the most often observed bacteria in fuels, including the samples used to chack Xbee ability to reduce the bacteria growth: http://www.xbee.com/microbiologie_bacteries.jpg .

I hope this will satisfy your curiosity.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth - Intertek answer

Well, it is certainly a list of microorganisms headed "Microorganisms isolated from fuels" but it doesn't say which fuels, by whom, for what purpose or whether it is in any way connected with Soltron's claimed powers.

It does your case not good whatsoever as it suggests that the person who supplied it does not understand the question, let alone have the answer.

 

[Xbee]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth - Intertek answer

Lemain, my guess is that none of the answers and none of the documents I could submit to you would be satisfying, am I wrong?
This list has been supplied by an engineer in microbiological research who worked for Kodak and now is employed by Intertek Caleb Brett, one of the most famous lab used by petroleum companies. This is the exact answer to your question because no fuel worldwide contains only one or two specific types of bacteria, but a "melting-pot" of them, usually mixed with yeast and mold.
It could have been possible to determine the five, fifteen or fifty types of bacteria in this particular sample against a few thousands euros . . . but the fact is that this study would be totally irrelevant as per no other fuel would contain exactly the same bacteria.

Now, if you want the complete reports, give me your email address please. Then you will even have the possibility to transfer the file to whomever you would like . . .

This offer is valid for anybody else interested in reading the complete reports we have in our archives.
Then, if you still doubt, you can always try the product in your engines at a very little cost.

All the best,

Ronan Pennec

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth - Intertek answer

[ QUOTE ]
Lemain, my guess is that none of the answers and none of the documents I could submit to you would be satisfying, am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]No, that is rubbish as surely you know? You had previously presented a 'report' to substantiate your product and I pointed out that the report was meaningless since it did not identify which microorganisms had been 'counted'. Now you present us with a huge list of all the microorganisms that have ever been seen in fuel! So what?

This is utterly typical and predictable when dealing with any of you suppliers of fuel additives. You will never, ever, support your wild claims with copies of the tests that you claim have been conducted by reputable laboratories. Why not? Could it be that there have been no such tests conducted and had any such tests been carried out they would indicate that the product is little more than a dash of paraffin with colouring and perfume added? Or is that too harsh? If so, forgive me, but I am getting rather bored with this, it has been going on for years and we never make even a half step of progress.

Edit PS - I am sending you a pm with my email address.

 

[Xbee]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth - Intertek answer

Thank you for having given me an email address, I hope that the original report will make you more at ease with the Xbee biotechnology.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Xbee: bacterial growth - Intertek answer

Thanks, I have now read the report and confirmed the details with the laboratory, who emailed me promptly. It seems fair to conclude that this product does indeed reduce 'viable' microbiological contamination in fuel. It does not go any further than this - i.e. the report does not tell us whether the resulting substance was safe to be passed into filters and injectors (without blocking the filters) so it isn't the whole story.

I would far rather read a report by a qualified scientist/engineer confirming that lab tests have been carried out to show that the product works as claimed.