Soft shackle

[zoidberg]

I couldn't get a GP appointment within a month, so have resorted to some Retail Therapy instead.

This came all the way from China, courtesy of TEMU, and is 57cm long. It seems to be crafted from 12mm 12-strand 'something or other' which has the look and feel of a HMWPE fibre. It is, however, a bright colour....

At just over a fiver, cheap as chips! I can't make them from proper Dyneema for that....!

But... what's it good for? More to the point, what's it not good for?

Guesses?

 

[Bristolfashion]

It might hold up a tin mug - probably don't use it on anything breakable!

TEMU : Strapline - "Destroy the planet like a billionaire"!

 

[Daverw]

I couldn't get a GP appointment within a month, so have resorted to some Retail Therapy instead.

This came all the way from China, courtesy of TEMU, and is 57cm long. It seems to be crafted from 12mm 12-strand 'something or other' which has the look and feel of a HMWPE fibre. It is, however, a bright colour....

At just over a fiver, cheap as chips! I can't make them from proper Dyneema for that....!

But... what's it good for? More to the point, what's it not good for?

Guesses?

Not sure about not being able to make them for less, I’ve just made 5 from £18 of 6mm dyneema, the final 2 took about 15minutes to make, was quite pleased with myself. Will do some more when I’ve bought more dyneema from SIBs and will probably drop down a size to 5mm

 

[Bristolfashion]

I find making soft shackles to be rather therapeutic itself.

I whip the loose ends - green for top quality (critical applications), red for others.

 

[garymalmgren]

Chinese UHMWP is not as bad as you think.
And much better than you think.
That is if you want to accept the evidence.

 

[Bristolfashion]

I seem to recall that the quality of the knot was more an issue than the breaking point of the rope. I'm not sure I'd trust one of these.

 

[thinwater]

12 mm Dyneema, probably rated at 40-50,000 pounds breaking strength. I forget the size of his boat, but this is probably rated to lift it and his neighbor. Most of the likely applications are probably 40 times less than that. Yes, I would take a good look at the fabrication, as I would anything, but I wouldn't worry. One small and mid-size boats we size a lot of our soft shackles for ease of handling more than strength so they are greatly oversized.

I used to make all of mine, but now I buy some (generally much smaller --1/4-inch) because I know I'll loose them overboard before they chafe (I use them on headsail sheets). Cheap and pretty darn good.

I've bought ~ 5 Chineema tow ropes over time. All tested at the claimed strength. Slightly less than Amsteel, but at the claimed strength.

Bottom line: I use Amsteel for standing rigging and very critical items, and I like it better for running rigging because it runs a little better and chafes less. But I wouldn't throw Chineema under the bus, since it is a super value and better than many choices.

 

[vyv_cox]

I tested several 5 mm soft shackles for YM a few years ago. Some Dyneema, some UHMWPE. Previously I had tested 10 mm stainless steel shackles. In general the UTS of the soft shackles was twice that of the stainless ones. It's remarkable stuff.

Even if a 12 mm one was not particularly good it is probably the strongest shackle on your boat.

 

[zoidberg]

'Chineema'...eh!
Margins of Safety... factor of 2x? Or 3x? Or what....?

I've made up multipart strops in 2.5mm, 3mm, 6mm - and soft shackles in 5mm, 6.mm, 10 and 12mm stuff. And lean towards 4x safety factors.
The above Video is most illuminating, thanks.

 

[Bristolfashion]

It may be "YM" to buy soft shackles from China, but it's a bit deskilling and definitely not "PBO"!

 

[thinwater]

It may be "YM" to buy soft shackles from China, but it's a bit deskilling and definitely not "PBO"!

OK.

Buy Chineema (or Amsteel) and the make toggled shackles. I don't hear much talk of toggled shackles, but they are easy to make and better in some applications (easier to open and close). And no cheating buying the toggles; buy aluminium rod stock.

 

[noelex]

This came all the way from China, courtesy of TEMU, and is 57cm long. It seems to be crafted from 12mm 12-strand 'something or other' which has the look and feel of a HMWPE fibre. It is, however, a bright colour....

Guesses?

It looks like they have used the superior Brion Toss button knot rather than the easier to tie, but weaker diamond knot .

 

[Bristolfashion]

OK.

Buy Chineema (or Amsteel) and the make toggled shackles. I don't hear much talk of toggled shackles, but they are easy to make and better in some applications (easier to open and close). And no cheating buying the toggles; buy aluminium rod stock.

Seems a bit strange to faff around with toggles when I can just tie the appropriate knot. I can do this easily aboard - certainly without the hassle of processing & storing aluminium rod.

Although aluminium is light, you've also just reintroduced some of the issues with metal shackles.

The other benefit of "home build" is making the size & length you want for any particular application.

 

[thinwater]

Seems a bit strange to faff around with toggles when I can just tie the appropriate knot. I can do this easily aboard - certainly without the hassle of processing & storing aluminium rod.

Although aluminium is light, you've also just reintroduced some of the issues with metal shackles.

The other benefit of "home build" is making the size & length you want for any particular application.

a. I was joking around about your deskilling comment.
b. Don't knock them until you have used them. You can't know. I've seen them on some pretty high end boats. They are easier to handle, particularly with winter gloves. They are also slightly stronger than knotted soft shackles because the knot is replaced with a pair of eye splices around the toggle and the radius around the toggle is smoother. But the difference is very small.

I could tease that it might be an old-school skill that you have lost. Toggles go way back.

[The retainer loops is easily replaced with a soft-shackle style pass-through. That is how I do them.]

 

[Bristolfashion]

a. I was joking around about your deskilling comment.
b. Don't knock them until you have used them. You can't know. I've seen them on some pretty high end boats. They are easier to handle, particularly with winter gloves. They are also slightly stronger than knotted soft shackles because the knot is replaced with a pair of eye splices around the toggle and the radius around the toggle is smoother. But the difference is very small.

I could tease that it might be an old-school skill that you have lost. Toggles go way back.

[The retainer loops is easily replaced with a soft-shackle style pass-through. That is how I do them.]

Interestingly (or not) I've hand carved a few toggles with my spoon carving tools - not up to marine strength, but a bit of fun on the camp site. Australian paperbark come in relatively small branches, but is fine grained, knot free and doesn't crack.

 

[zoidberg]

What have I started?

I refer the Honourable Gentlemen to my original post, on the need for Retail Therapy....

 

[Bristolfashion]

What have I started?

I refer the Honourable Gentlemen to my original post, on the need for Retail Therapy....

Surely a thread meandering off in odd directions is a kind of therapy?

And, if you want to add "retail", you can buy me a few metres of dyneema ......

 

[zoidberg]

Surely a thread meandering off in odd directions is a kind of therapy?

And, if you want to add "retail", you can buy me a few metres of dyneema ......

That's not therapy - that's charity. And we both know where charity begins....

 

[Bristolfashion]

To me, buying a soft shackle is like buying pre prepared baked potatoes with the cheese already sprinkled on!

Sadly, I do remember being slightly gobsmacked when I first saw grated cheese in a pack in a french supermarket.

Pre toasted toast anyone?

 

[Roberto]

Seems a bit strange to faff around with toggles when I can just tie the appropriate knot. I can do this easily aboard - certainly without the hassle of processing & storing aluminium rod.

I find dog bones useful where space is limited, for example between the mainsail headboard and halyard pulley, or mainsail foot outhaul and end-of-boom pulley.
A shackle (soft or metal), knot, splice etc all eat away several centimeters of the available space, the dog bone gives the shortest attachment.