So its 8 metres and above....

[steve_cronin]

The length a boat has to be to get charged light dues. That is because it is reasonable to assume that boats of this size are "capable" of making foreign voyages. Maybe it's the smaller ones that will see the "lights" more often since this implies that they are coastal only. Maybe the boat licences, when they come, will also exclude smaller boats or, maybe, it'll be made illegal to go offshore in an INcapable small boat? Perhaps, in fear of being branded reckless or irresponsible I'd better not let on about the 27 channel trips in a 5metre motor cruiser or the 60+ crossings in the 7 metre Newbridge.

Sounds like it then, according to the new RYA Mag that "Light - a- dues are comming, Light - a- dues are comming"


Steve Cronin

<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion

 

[Dominic]

Depends on its Flag...

So how will they know who to charge ?
Probably by looking through the SSR and Part 1 registry - which will require compulsory registration.
So - Change your flag. How many Liberian registered yachts have you seen ? Could be a new bit of one-upmanship, stead of a defaced blue ensign.

Soon flying a red ensign will only mean one thing - You haven´t paid for your boat and the bank won´t let you change flag until the loan is paid.

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[Robin]

I'm all right, we are Part 1 registered, according to the RYA only the Part 3 SSR registered boats will pay.

I vote for Civil Disobedience!

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Robin on 26/02/2004 18:01 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Robin]

Re: Depends on its Flag...

Yep, SWMBO is a Yank. We could have a starry stripey one.

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[Sybarite]

Re: Depends on its Flag...

Nationality within the EU may not be an issue. There is a mass movement to re-register French boats as Belgian: 20 in 2002, 500 in 2003 and increasing apparently by 30% per month. (Source : Voile & Voiliers). Taxes are not affected if the boat remains more than 180 days per year in French waters but even the "droit de passeport" (= taxe de francisation for a French boat) is apparently being phased out. All that the Belgian authorities require is an insurance survey (no old wrecks), photos and/or plans. The motivation for this move is to escape the very stringent and expensive safety requirements in France. The Affaires Maritimes will no longer have the right to check (and impose fines on) safety equipment. The move is legal under the notion of the freedom of movement of goods and services.

Another popular registration site is apparently Malta where VAT on boats is apparently only 5%. Good if you are bringing a boat back from the USA??
Malta has temporary arrangements with the EU and becomes a full member on May 1 this year.

John

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: Depends on its Flag...

I think I would rather pay up than that!!! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Top Cat Homepage</A>

 

[cloudnine]

There's always the Speed Camera approach. If we all go round spray painting them black then in theory there won't be any lights to pay dues on AND no sailors to pay them anyway 'cos we would have all been smashed up on the rocks.
Sailing - the last frontier yet to be sucked dry by the bloody government and bureaucrats. Sadly it has got to come.

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[poter]

sadly its got to come

Why??????

Even a thorough sceptic like what I is, still thinks that we are livin in a Democracy.
look what happened to the poll tax & now the council tax...or am I living in a fools paradise.....who cares about rich boat owners?

When is it proposed to start?

May have to leave earlier than planned?


poter

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[rickwat]

Breathtaking cheek !

£100 pa to pay for lights showing us where we can't go in busy places and for lights unidentifiable in a swell or moderate sea or against any coastal backdrop. How much will they charge for using the European Satellite Positioning System when they make it mandatory ?

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[bigmart]

Re: Breathtaking cheek !

I posted this last week but Trinity House claim that they keep getting requests from yachties & small power boat owners for nav aids. This, they say, is what is driving the demand for Light Dues.

Now don't shoot the messenger. I am as against light dues as you are.

Martin

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[maxi]

Re: Bigmart

Well they would say that wouldn't they. But can they validate the number of requests of this nature and will they publish an auditable list of nav-aids that they have provided as a direct result of these requests. I don't think so. Rip off Britain at it's glorious best.

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[Robin]

Re: Breathtaking cheek !

What requests for what additional aids? Everything useful to us nowadays is Harbourmaster supplied (and paid for via harbour dues). Lighthouses are far less useful now that GPS is used by nearly all, in any case are useful only to those who sail offshore at night and they will certainly have GPS. The VHF DF lighthouses which were useful pre GPS/Decca have long been removed. Channel buoys like in the Solent, mid-channel etc are not there for us but big ships, if anything we are told to keep inshore of these anyway. The differential part of the GPS system is phasing out for WAAS/EGNOS GPS, EGNOS, the European one, is not funded by Trinity House. So just what is it they think we are asking for?







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[pandroid]

Re: Breathtaking cheek !

Exactly. Trinity House need £70M a year to live, and the commercial shipping boys are fed up paying for it, now they have GPS, and are using clout (i.e Go elsewhere) to push for others to pay it. What I dont understand is why Part III. Puts the cost up from a tenner every 5 years to five hundred. People will simply come off the register.

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[webcraft]

Re: Breathtaking cheek and the SSR

How do you get off the SSR? I've only just gone on it, but would now like to make a swift exit if it's going to cost me £100 per annum.

I only went on the SSR to have a useful piece of paper to show foreigners - seemed good value at £10, but it wouldn't take long to print off some much more convincing and impressive documentation on my own PC.

(Which, by the way, will also be my answer to the 3rd party insurance problem if the day comes when no-one will provide it - isn't that what they mean by self-insuring??)

Very interested in the idea of registering under (eg) the Panamanian flag - seems to have worldwide recognition. An enterprising company charging a modest fee could perhaps clean up here if creeping regulation and taxation of UK yachtsmen continues.

- Nick



<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com>http://www.bluemoment.com</A></font size=1>

 

[bigmart]

Re: Breathtaking cheek !

The problem that I forsee is that, this will be, the thin end of the wedge. I doubt that £100 will be sufficient to raise the funds they want & therefore an enforcement organisation will be setup , the price will rise to pay for that & who knows where we will go from that.

Look at your RYA mag & the others that sponsor this site & you will see that in a very few number of years we will have Red Diesel, Light Dues, Licensing & numerous other little sneak taxes to contend with.

Part of the problem is that even those we would normally consider as friends, in many cases, have a vested interest in adding fuel to the flames. Every year the RNLI send out press releases shouting about how many more people they have rescued "this year". We are constantly told that we have one of the best safety records in the world, so how come we are apparently criticised by those who promote safety. The reason is that in this area the RNLI have a need to promote themselves over & above the truth of the situation. Fine for the RNLI but this will be used as ammuntition against us boaters. I know that it is not popular to criticise an organisation that has such laudable aims as the RNLI but I am sure that you can see the truth of what I am saying.

I wonder what they would say to these crticisms of their organisation? Would the RNLI support a campaign against comulsory licensing, for example.

Martin

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[philwebb]

Re: Breathtaking cheek !

Trinity House should be asked for details of these requests, so that we can see if
they are trying it on or not. Also no taxation without representation- us yachties
should have someone on the Trinity House comittees to ensure fair play ie that any money collected is actually spent on navaids that we use . I must say I am attracted to the civil disobedience option, but there again my boat might be a Kelt 8, but it is actually 7.9 metres long, so sod them anyway. I would imagine also that once this tax
is established it will start to spiral out of control, like road tax.


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[global_odyssey]

Bl**dy Bureacrats

I read somewhere yesterday that of all the taxes we pay to Whitehall (and I'm frankly sick of them) only 14p for every £1 actually gets spent usefully. The rest pays for the system!
IMHO we should get rid of all the systems and live in blissful anarchy!

<hr width=100% size=1>I've got wind......................
...............................in my sails!

 

[steve_cronin]

Please re-consider your use of the RNLI....

When all that nonsense about boating breathalysers was around, the RNLI were the first marine associated organisation to tell the government that "They did not see a problem that required a solution" thereby directly supporting the majority opinion in boating, not as you suggest being part of the "plot".

The reason that the ads continue to stress that there are regular rescues of leisure boaters is that although a large proportion of boat users contribute to the RNLI, there is still a huge section which doesn't (& IOM darned well should!)

Steve Cronin

<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion

 

[Boathook]

I am going down to my boat tomorrow; a bit of the stern and bows may take it down to just under 8m without altering the internal accommodation or water line length. A tape measure is a good start.
If Trinity House wish to save money they could remove all the buoys in deep water that the average boat does not need. That means the majority of them in the Solent which will upset the racing boats !

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[charles_reed]

Redundant bureaucrats?

Don't you mean

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