SO, FLares, what REALLY is the law?

milltech

milltech

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 May 2001
Messages
2,518
Location
Worcester
www.italkfm.com
So I read all the posts below, all the opinions, but I was no closer to understanding the LAW.

Lets say we want to organise a demonstration in Berkshire, (as indeed I do), and that the nearest navigable waterway is about 12 miles away, maybe more, and the nearest Mountain Rescue station a good deal further,

WHO WOULD WE NEED TO INFORM in order to be legal?

Oh, and also, the position with or without parachute flares, (since I don't have any of the latter at the moment).

"BRAINS" only please respond!! (Not some numpty with an opinion - like me).

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by milltech on 08/11/2004 14:17 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
the answer appears to be that it is illegal to let off flares unless in distress. while you can come to an agreement with a local harbourmaster/coastguard it doesn't actually make you 100% legal.

In practice if you are ashore it's only rockets that can get you into trouble.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
OK, so if I telephone Thames Valley Police and advise them I will be doing this on such-and-such a day that might do?

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
i think they would either tell you not to do it or more likely be totally uninterested. if you aren't planning on using rockets i would just get on with it.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
The below taken from the mcga site may provide some illumination on the subject.

To be honest, as you are not firing parachute flares, I doubt the police have the slightest clue about the legality, or would be able to give you authorisation, and as long as where you plan to set off the hand held flares is sheltered from passing pedestrians and traffic, then just go ahead and do it. You also stated in another post that it's illegal for you to set them off after exipry date - where did you get this information from - I believe it is incorrect
==============================

Defendant: Harold William Smith

Date of Offence: 4th Nov. 2001

Offences: Improperly making a distress signal contrary to Regulation 3 of the Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and Prevention of Collision) Regulations, 1996

Details: At a hearing on 8th July 2002 at Medway Magistrates' Court, Chatham, the owner of the vessel OCEAN MONARCH was convicted the above offence. The court heard how on the 4th of November 2001, Mr Smith contacted Medway Navigation Service and told the duty officer he wanted to fire a red flare to dispose of it. He was told in no uncertain terms not to, but fired the flare anyway, which was 3 years out of date. The flare was seen by a passing ship in the River Medway. The court was told of the potential dangers in firing time expired flares, the disruption to the rescue services caused by false alarms and the degree of recklessness shown, having been specifically told not to moments before firing the flare. There were legal arguments offered by the defence to the effect that this offence can only be committed whilst on board ship. However, these were discounted by the bench who accepted the prosecution argument that the offence is committed by the master whether or not he is on board his vessel. The question of the proximity of the master to his ship in relation to the offence would depend on the precise nature of the offence. In this case Mr Smith admitted to being on the pontoon next to his vessel.

Penalty: Conditional Discharge (for 12months) plus £100 towards costs.



<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
"You also stated in another post that it's illegal for you to set them off after exipry date - where did you get this information from - I believe it is incorrect".


I don't think I said "illegal", I think I was commenting that someone else had said that if it was a proper demo by CG or RNLI that they would want to use in date flares because of their health and safety rules.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
The general thrust of that court report would be that is our neck of the woods we'd be OK.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
Like I said, if passersby cannot see hand held flares, then don't bother asking permission, just do it. Rocket/parachute flares would be another matter entirely.
The only other comment I'd make is - are these flares all one brand? One of the big points of doing demos normally is to try out all the different trigger mechanisms of the different brands. Trying out just one brand is OK'is, but no where near as useful as trying all the different types

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
Ah.

When he said he wanted to organise a 'demonstration', I thought he was going to dig a tunnel, or chain himself to a tree or something.... flares would be a whole load more fun for that purpose /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
You would think, some bright spark at a pyrotechnic company would come up with a cheaper test flare. One that fires blanks, or even a 1 second green flare for example.

I have fired a few rockets and the bit that always gets me is learning the trigger, holding at the right angle to the wind and incredible whoosh as it goes.

I would like to think I am better prepared now than if I had never 'broke the law' when in a blind panic fumbling in the dark trying to read the instructions on the side of the flare and then blowing a hole in my groin.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Woof</A>
 
At the proper demo's they have blanks from all the popular manufacturers, so you can try them all out beforehand. The number of different trigger mechanisms is quite considerable

Actually letting off the flares I thought would be relatively simple, but many people still have problems with the actuality, despite trying the trigger mechanisms before. Either not getting the angle correct with rocket flares, or some of the ladies not being able to let off the hand held flares as they couldn't hit the ends hard enough

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
I know its bad, but I regularly use old flares to light my barbie. Especially good on damp wood. I've stopped using the orange smokes as they don't quite do it and the neighbours complain. A lot.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
I let off an orange canaster on the drive once, the house filled with orange smoke.

I had to hide from my mum for days after that

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Woof</A>
 
Can't see the problem with that sort of use inland away from places where a flare would be an emergency call. Unlikely to call out emergency services. Rocket flares are the real problem. Unless you live in North Wales, Lakes, Yorks Dales, Highlands etc, where people actually do use flares to attract attention..and a few other circumstances like the few times people get caught out in winter weather where flares would be a life saver.

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
Well when you think that yobs can let off air bombs all year round in the UK and get away with it, compared with that what you are intending is tame and has a point!

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Just that as no one is really clear about the laws, the point I was making that if people can let off fireworks when they feel like it, what harm is Milltech doing when his aim is to organise a controlled demonstration which unlike fireworks could prove beneficial to those involved!

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Why do you want to get yourself in such a tizz over this.

Just contact the RNLI and ask for a demo and they will take care of all the "legal" stuff.

They don't charge for the service so whats the problem?

If your just looking for a reason to let off out of date flares there are ways of disposing of them.
Have I missed something!!!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Yes, they are all PainsWessex and as The Boatman pointed out there are easier ways of disposing of them, but I don't think that's quite the point.

I have never set one off, I guessing most people haven't. The chance to unload two or three each would give a level of confidence about how to use them in real life conditions.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top