Snuffers - advice please

[bedouin]

On the advice of many people I have recently invested in a snuffer to try to ease the process of handling the (symmetric) spinnaker while short handed.

Our attempts to use it on Saturday could best be described as a disaster!

We started with the chute in the snuffer laid out on the deck - attached the halyard and sheets and hoisted. Somehow this resulted in the whole thing twisted with the control line tied in knots round the snuffer. When we finally got that sorted, and the snuffer raised, the clew was far too far from the pole and it took a lot of work to winch it in and get it to set properly.

When we came to drop the spinnaker (on a beam reach) no way would the snuffer come down so we resorted to the tried-and-tested "under the boom and down the hatch" method. Examining the resultant mess I discovered that the snuffer seemed to be twisted round itself several times, and it took the best part of three quarters of an hour to disentangle everything. At present the spinnaker is back in its turtle and the snuffer is in a pile on the bunk.

So - can anyone give advice as to how to make my next attempt more successful than the last?

 

[andrewg]

We tried ours again yesterday just to see It was a nightmare to unzip and wouldn't snuff at all. That was in ideal conditions F2-3. I have never yet used a snuffer without it going horribly wrong.

 

[DoctorD]

I have had nothing but trouble with snuffers. I hate them! My advice is get rid of it!With a spinnake you have loads of bits of string in the copckpit anyway so you don't need more stuff to get tangled. Especially now I use two sheets and two guys so I can dip-pole gybe. Nowadays I just hoist asymetric or spinnaker under the lee of the jib and then roll the jib away. Dropping the spinnaker you let the pole right forward so sail is behind the main then let go halyard and guy and lazy sheet and then pull in on the other sheet and guy, pulling the sail into the main companionway. It also help-s to have a person on the side deck gathering in the foot of the sail stopping it going in the water. Similar with gennaker (but no pole of course so a bit easier).

Graham

 

[bedouin]

I think you may well be right.

The real reason for trying the snuffer was not really to do with hoisting or dropping, but rather to packing it away. I prefer to have two people to pack the spinnaker, and when your sailing 2-up that is just not possible. Hence it is difficult to set the spinnaker more than once on one trip - a bit of a limitation.

 

[Boathook]

our spinnaker is in a snuffer and works well with limitations.
It has to be put up with out twists etc in the control lines otherwise it does not not come down once up!! Also if the spinnaker is pulling fully the snuffer will not come down. Have found it best to practically let go of the sheet (or is it the guy?) and then snuff. When short handed sailing it does make it possible to use the spinnaker

 

[jimi]

I'm no expert but I use a snuffer on my cruising chute & never have had a problem. However when I first used it I put it up on a relatively still day basically just to get everything inside the envelope right. When I bung it away I 'm careful to loosely coil the control rope outside the envelope so that it's all OK and of course shadowing it with the main makes it quite easy to raise & lower without blistered hands. The other thing I do is run the control line through a karabiner attached to the toe rail so I do'nt lose it aloft ... would be interesting if it got wrapped round the radar reflector!

 

[homa]

I agree with Bedouin,
I have used a snuffer on my 29' boat on and off for 5 years with mixed success.
The jury is still out on whether it's a good idea or not.
The main thing is to get the spinnaker up inside the sock without ANY twists in the snuffer control lines.
Once the spinnaker is pulling the snuffer lines must be tied off, with no slack to avoid any twists. Ensure snuffer lines run inside the spinnaker NOT infront when it's flying, otherwise you won't get it down.
All in all the're OK when they work but a disaster when they jam.
I sail a lot single handed (with spinnaker) and find it no quicker with or without snuffer due to extra lines. I'm sure if you have a small crew & someone to keep an eye for twists in the snuffer line then it might save time & effort.

By the way anyone out there got a spinnaker suitable for a monsun 31, I'm looking for one.

happy sailin'
homa

 

[Guest]

Re: elastic bands

I'm sure many have used these before but here goes.
Cut bottom out of plastic bucket.
''Load'' bucket with elastic bands of suitable size to snap when sheet and guy sheeted but to hold sail in sausage.
Pull kite head first thro bucket slipping bands off at regular intervals say 500mm along length of kite.
Kite can then be hoisted without filling untill you are ready.
I'm not sure how you prevent pollution as bands snap and sprinkle deck/water and as for getting the bucket to the mast top. when dropping.... ;-))
I've only used this method on larger yachts (45' plus) in a good blow but it works!

 

[DoctorD]

Yes I see - the packing can be a problem. I sometimes pack the spinnaker on my own (when sailing two up) by tying the head to an overhead handle in the saloon, folding concertina fashion from one tack to to the head, then tying the tack ring to the head with another sail tie. Then I run my hands along the foot to the other tack where I again fold it concertina fashion to the head again. Then I have the head and two tacks tied above me. I stuff the sail in the bag and finally the rings (head, tack, tack) go middle, end, end as usual, tied to the bag so they are visible when attaching sheets/guys etc.

This works for me - can be a bit of a nightmare in a seaway, but at least I never seem to get a twisted spinnaker. Sorry if this sounds pratty or if I am teaching my granny to suck eggs but I have had some nightmares with snuffers and I only know one guy who seems to get them to work with no problems. I noted on the RTIR that hardly anyone had snuffers even amongst my ISC class (i.e. cruisy types and occasional racers out for a good time)

I note that some of the books do recommend snuffers as the easy short handed way to handle spinnakers so maybe it is just me.

All the best with it anyway

Graham

 

[chippie]

Re: Bagging a spinnaker

I used to have the job of re packing the spinnaker on a 31' racer after each run and before the next one. I used to hang the peak out of the bag and work my way down one side as I hurredly stuffed it into the bag, then the same toward the other eye. By working down one side I always avoided the twist and ended up with the corners hanging out ready for clipping on. One other thing-- The head and clews were marked clearly with felt pen after an embarrasing upside down hoist.
I saw a single hander on a 29' cat the other day practising raising and lowering his snuffer with ease. I must have a closer look at how he does it.

 

[Chris_Stannard]

My experience is that snuffers are generally more trouble than they are worth, but if you have one it is important that the line that goes inside the snuffer is in a seperate tube so that it cannot get tangled up with the spinnaker. Even so the head of the spinnaker is about 4 feet out from the mast which tends to make the spinnaker less stable.
If you are going to persist with it, one thing that I found was that you need to let the halyard off about 3 feet before you try to pull the snuffer back down over the spinnaker. This stops the lines getting in a tangle at the masthead. It also helps if you unroll the genoa to take the wind out of the spinnaker
As regards the bucket and elastic bands way of hoisting, be careful if you employ this method to make sure you get weak bands that will break easily, otherwise you may have a wonderful hour glass shape up.
I have recently seen a cover, make by Ratsey and Lapthorn, which allows you to hoist the spinnaker and then pull a line to let the spinnaker open. It does not help with recovery. I am thinking about this as I find the hoisting is the hardest part short handed.

We usually sail two up but have a good autopilot. Hope this helps

Chris Stannard

 

[Guest]

It is usually the takedown thats a bit tricky when short handed.

Try this trick. Throw the tail of the kite halyard overboard so it streams behind the boat. Get ready for the gather and just blow the halyard, usually the drag of the halyard in the water is enough to keep it under control, on some boats you may need to tie something on the end of the halyard (rags, large knots etc). Works like a dream from 80' maxis to quarter-tonners.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

I too had trouble the first time that I tried it; now I would not be without. Here's what I did.
I took the sail home with me and I stretched it out so that the bulk of the sail was hanging between the three taut edges. The sock of the snuffer was then sorted out, ensuring that it was not twisted in any way. I did modify the original arrangement (that had the snuffing line going through a plain ring) by adding a tiny, ball-bearing type, block. This is made fast to the strop that goes to the head of the sail. The strop is long enough to take all of the bunched up sock, leaving the genniker free. I then fitted a swivel so that any twisting goes to the halyard and not to the sail - assuming that both tack and clew have been made fast.
Next step was to check that the snuffer could slide along the sail and back up again. Any problems here meant that the snuffer sock had yet another twist in it. Once you have sorted out all this pull the snuffer down, unfasten the sail from whatever you had suspended it from and stuff it in its bag, leaving the three corners handy as is usual
Before hoisting the sock, attach the tack and the sheet on the side that you intend to use and hoist away smartly. As long as the tack and the clew are separated from each other, the sail will not twist itself because of the swivel at the end of the haliard.
Sail and snuffer came with the boat. The sailmakers, Arun, were kind enough to send me a leaflet with useful hints, even though I was not the original buyer.
To conclude:
(1) Sort out twisting with the sail stretched horizontally
(2) Do not pull snuffer over the sail until you are certain that it has no twists
(3) Add a swivel between the sail / snuffer and the halyard.
If you wish I can send you a photo showing how clear the sock is above the sail.
Fair Winds!

Wally