Slab reefing

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chwarae

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Hi,
I currently have roller reefing. I am thinking of fitting slab reefing to a Tomahawk 25.
Which system does the panel think is best?
At present every thing is at the mast,so probably will stay that way although it would be nice to bring things back to cockpit.

Any advice welcome.
Thanks
H.
 
FWIW I fitted one of the Barton reefing kits for the clew.

Adjustable position cheek blocks with beckets on a track

No reason for the track other that it make the position adjustable. Fixed blocks are adequate so long as you position them correctly.

See this page

I lead the lines forward along the boom through some st st saddles, to stop them drooping, to ( jamming) cleats at the forward end.

For the tack I made improvised rams horns from a couple of large st st shackles .

...
 
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Hi Harry,

the mast slugs may make it more convenient to have all the lines at the mast and gooseneck end; a quickly removable pin in the mast track with a securing line will be required.

One thing I would strongly suggest is to use ball bearing blocks wherever possible in the reefing set-up, this makes everything much easier.

I have 2 reefing hooks at the gooseneck, and 3 reef rows - never had to use the 3rd yet but if I did I'd simply remove the 1st reef luff to make that hook available.

The reefing line clew blocks must pull the sail cringle aft as well as down, to flatten the sail for strong winds, so positions can only really be determined with the sail on the boom.

Some people make a big deal out of having all the lines led to one place, but I pull the reef luff down to the hook manually then the reefing clew lines are led aft to the cockpit, works fine for me but everything including deck organisers are ball bearing.

If they suit your set-up Spinlock XAS clutches make life easier; with ball bearing blocks this adds up to expensive stuff, but it's primary safety kit and you only fit it once !

If leading lines to the cockpit 'Blue' make some good modern canvas pouches which can stow the halliard & reefing line ends, also winch handles and anything else handy.

While you're at it, I've found having the topping lift led aft very useful, one can scandalise the main to depower ( kicking strap is within reach too ), say sailing onto a mooring, also I can tension topping lift and mainsheet to give a steady boom for crew taking the main down.
 
From a rolller reefing mainsail you will need to have the reefing cringles both on the luff and leach of the sail, usually 2 rows of cringles are sufficient across the sail,these are about 1/2" diameter. Whilst having these fitted it would be useful too to have them fit 2 webbing pendants with 1 1/2"dia st stl rings at each end . The first reef of the luff will be pulled downward and the ring popped over the ram's horn( the other end prevents the pendant from being pulled through the luff cringle) A second reef will do the same but the ring fitting on the opposite side ram's horn. Tensioning the clew reefing cringle follows each time.
I have sliders also on my mainsail but have no problems reefing first reef, I don't remove them. However I can see that it may be necessary for a second or even third reef- But I try not to go out then!


ianat182
 
You don't have to buy a kit - a few blocks and some string will do it on a small boat!

I had roller reefing on my Snapdragon 24, but there was one set of reefing cringles in the main. One day on a beat, I tried tying down the cringles rather than using the roller and the difference in pointing and speed was astonishing, so I went to slab and had a second reef fitted to the sail.

Initially, I riveted an eye on the boom on one side and a turning block on the other a few inches aft of where the leach cringle came down to the boom and a small cleat at the forward end if the boom to attach it. Same on the other side for the second reef. The luff cringles were taken care of by a pair of horns, which any decent chandler will be happy to sell you.

Last year, I decided that at the mast in conditions that warrant putting in a second reef wasn't a good place to be, especially when single handed, so I fitted single line reefing with all lines to the cockpit. The leach arrangement is unchanged, while I have blocks mounted on a double ended eyebolt through the square hole where the handle to wind the boom round used to go. These take the lines up to the luff cringle, which has a block attached, then down to more blocks at the foot of the mast, mounted on a bracket I had made by a tame stainless fabricator, as there was nowhere else convenient to put them. The bracket is simply bolted round the tabernacle and shows no signs of moving. I tried just taking the reefing line through the leach cringles and down the other side, but there was too much friction. The lines are 8mm braid, which is far stronger than I need, but it makes it easy to handle. I was given a couple of old but functional clutches by someone who was refitting, but could have got away with cheap jammers.

With the new string, bringing 2 reefs, main halyard, topping lift, kicker and lazy jack lines aft probably cost me a bit over £200, but was worth every penny. I have to lift the boom to get it out of the way of heads when not sailing, which is why the LJs need to be adjustable.

The other day, I decided I wanted a second reef. Single handed, with the old system, this would have meant starting the engine and setting the autopilot to keep the head to windward, clip on, up to the mast, clip to the mast, set the reef, while the chop's doing it's best to throw me over the side, then back to the cockpit, back on course, engine off, phew! This time, I turned into the wind and set the reef in about 15 seconds, from the comfort and safety of the cockpit.

The only thing wrong with the arrangement that I've found so far is that the main doesn't drop all the way down under its own weight, when putting it to bed. It really isn't a big issue, but I'll be experimenting with a downhaul over the next month or so.
 
Please will someone explain to me why slab reefing is better than boom roller reefing.

I have exactly the same boom fittings as shown in the VicS pictures. My boat is a 26ft Heavenly Twins catamaran. The system seems to work perfectly adequately. I only do general cruising type sailing. Nothing fancy and usually single-handed.

I have read of converting to slab several times and not yet seen a reason why. It looks to make it all much more complicated.

Any explanation would be welcomed thanks.

Mike
 
The main objection to traditional roller reefing is that you cannot use the kicking strap once you have the sail wrapped around the boom, unless you use some fancy device. There are also issues with sail shape - the back of the boom tends to droop. It is more apparent on a large mainsail.
 
dmmbruce,

the big problem with roller reefing, be it main or foresail, is that it doesn't allow for the shape of sails; it would work perfectly if sails were completely 2 dimensional, flat as a sheet of paper.

As sails are hopefully shaped, the shape when reefed is baggy just when one needs a flat sail in strong winds.

In the past people used tricks like rolling sailbags and / or clothes up in the bunt of the sail to try and take out some of the bagginess, in the same manner as foam luffs on some foresails try to do nowadays; there were lots of stories of people putting the whole sail back up in calmer conditions and seeing their rolled up stuff fall over the side...

A reefing claw is also required to allow use of a kicking strap with the sail rolled around the boom, and the boom usually droops at the outboard end, a pain at least and quite possibly dangerous.

Slab reefing gives far more control of sail shape - the boom end blocks for reef clews should pull aft as well as down to give a flat sail.

Slab also allows the normal kicker to be retained, and the reefing lines, halliard & topping lift can be led aft which is a more attractive idea in lumpy seas than standing winding a gizmo on the mast.

So if one has to put it in one phrase, sail shape.
 
Stemar said:
You don't have to buy a kit - a few blocks and some string will do it on a small boat!

I had roller reefing on my Snapdragon 24, but there was one set of reefing cringles in the main. One day on a beat, I tried tying down the cringles rather than using the roller and the difference in pointing and speed was astonishing, so I went to slab and had a second reef fitted to the sail.

Initially, I riveted an eye on the boom on one side and a turning block on the other a few inches aft of where the leach cringle came down to the boom and a small cleat at the forward end if the boom to attach it. Same on the other side for the second reef. The luff cringles were taken care of by a pair of horns, which any decent chandler will be happy to sell you.

Last year, I decided that at the mast in conditions that warrant putting in a second reef wasn't a good place to be, especially when single handed, so I fitted single line reefing with all lines to the cockpit. The leach arrangement is unchanged, while I have blocks mounted on a double ended eyebolt through the square hole where the handle to wind the boom round used to go. These take the lines up to the luff cringle, which has a block attached, then down to more blocks at the foot of the mast, mounted on a bracket I had made by a tame stainless fabricator, as there was nowhere else convenient to put them. The bracket is simply bolted round the tabernacle and shows no signs of moving. I tried just taking the reefing line through the leach cringles and down the other side, but there was too much friction. The lines are 8mm braid, which is far stronger than I need, but it makes it easy to handle. I was given a couple of old but functional clutches by someone who was refitting, but could have got away with cheap jammers.

With the new string, bringing 2 reefs, main halyard, topping lift, kicker and lazy jack lines aft probably cost me a bit over £200, but was worth every penny. I have to lift the boom to get it out of the way of heads when not sailing, which is why the LJs need to be adjustable.

The other day, I decided I wanted a second reef. Single handed, with the old system, this would have meant starting the engine and setting the autopilot to keep the head to windward, clip on, up to the mast, clip to the mast, set the reef, while the chop's doing it's best to throw me over the side, then back to the cockpit, back on course, engine off, phew! This time, I turned into the wind and set the reef in about 15 seconds, from the comfort and safety of the cockpit.

The only thing wrong with the arrangement that I've found so far is that the main doesn't drop all the way down under its own weight, when putting it to bed. It really isn't a big issue, but I'll be experimenting with a downhaul over the next month or so.
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

I have been looking at kits and thought that it must be possible to set this up without. Do you have any pictures of your set up?

Also please let us know when you have a downhaul worked out so that I can steal that from you too.

Many thanks

Ian
 
Ian,

placing cheek blocks on the boom for reefing lines to the clews is just common sense and the ability to rivet, combined with a twin reefing hook fitted at the gooseneck - these hook jobs are available off the shelf.

A sail downhaul is usually achieved by fitting a small block at the headboard - if mainsail - with a relatively light line running up from deck or mast a little lower than boom level, up through this block and back down, either to a cleat on the mast or led aft.

The same can be done with a foresail, with a small block at the head of the sail, and is particularly handy if singlehanding with a hanked sail rather than roller job.

Barton after-market reefing hooks;

bn-41518.aspx
 
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SteveBrasset and SeaJet - thank-you!

I can now see what people are on about.

Since I don't have a kicker, this is not a limitation for me. Also being a cat, I could use the traveler to move the mainsheet position well to either side and pull the boom down that way.

My mainsail is always baggy, so sailshape may not be very relevant for me! :D :D :D

I will look and think, based on what you say, when I can next get on board. 400 yards out on a swing mooring in Poole has been rather inaccessible recently!

Thanks.

Mike
 
IanH said:
Hi Steve,

I have been looking at kits and thought that it must be possible to set this up without. Do you have any pictures of your set up?

Also please let us know when you have a downhaul worked out so that I can steal that from you too.

Many thanks

Ian
Click to expand...

Ni pics, sorry. I may be able to get some next time I go down, but that's a week or three away.

As Seajet says, it's really just a matter of common sense and thinking about how it needs to work. At the leach, you need to pull the sail down and a bit back to tension the foot, at the luff, you just need to hold the sail down against the halyard's tension. Then you have to get the lines back to the cockpit and have a way of holding them. On a big boat, you need fancy (=expensive) clutches, but on a small one, you could get away with jammers or maybe even simple cleats.

I had a winch at the mast that I moved next to the companionway on the halyard side, but I haven't had to use it. If it's too hard to pull the main up on a boat under 30ft by hand, I would think something's not right. The first thing I'd try is a squirt of PTFE or silicone spray on the sliders and mast slot
 
I have a claw and the handle for roller reefing. The claw works fine but the reefed sail is a bit baggy and I'm worried I'll drop the handle over the side. I already have a cringle and a full set of reefing eyes/grommets across the sail for a first fairly deep reef.
I just think the slab is tidier and inherently safer as it allows a boat to point better.
Undecided about at mast or in cockpit. looks pretty easy from mast and less installation issues.
Harry.
 
chwarae said:
I have a claw and the handle for roller reefing. The claw works fine but the reefed sail is a bit baggy and I'm worried I'll drop the handle over the side. I already have a cringle and a full set of reefing eyes/grommets across the sail for a first fairly deep reef.
I just think the slab is tidier and inherently safer as it allows a boat to point better.
Undecided about at mast or in cockpit. looks pretty easy from mast and less installation issues.
Harry.
Click to expand...

I had the same setup when I started. When I experimented with tying the reefing point down with a couple of bits of string, the difference in performance was enormous, so I'd definitely go for it.

I started out reefing at the mast. Apart from getting the second reef put in the sail, setting up the lines was a fairly lazy weekend's work and the improvement in ease and speed of reefing was huge compared with winding the boom round.

Leading lines aft required a few weeks pondering, getting a bracket made for the blocks at the foot of the mast and a couple of weekends. The only things that were wasted by doing it at the mast first were the reefing lines, as the new lines had to be 2 or 3 times the length, the reefing hooks and couple of little cleats, so it isn't a disaster if you try it at the mast and decide to run the lines aft later.
 
Stemar said:
I had a winch at the mast that I moved next to the companionway on the halyard side, but I haven't had to use it. If it's too hard to pull the main up on a boat under 30ft by hand, I would think something's not right. The first thing I'd try is a squirt of PTFE or silicone spray on the sliders and mast slot
Click to expand...

Thanks Steve.
 
Mast vs. cockpit: if everything including the topping lift is at the mast I would keep it like that. One can put in a reef in one go and it simplifies the arrangement.

My present boat has all the lines led aft. It used to be a single-line system and performed really poorly. To much friction and stretch. This season I have changed this and now I use separate lines for the fore and aft reefing cringles and this has transformed the systems performance completely. The topping lift can also be adjusted from the cockpit and I also use lazy jacks. Don't have to leave the cockpit any more.

The downsides are: lots of string in the cockpit and more expensive.

If luff sliders and cringles are in the right relative position removing sliders isn't necessary, not even for the 2nd or 3rd reef. Important when reefing from the cockpit.

Jan
Hanse 301
 
Stemar said:
Ni pics, sorry. I may be able to get some next time I go down, but that's a week or three away.

As Seajet says, it's really just a matter of common sense and thinking about how it needs to work. At the leach, you need to pull the sail down and a bit back to tension the foot, at the luff, you just need to hold the sail down against the halyard's tension. Then you have to get the lines back to the cockpit and have a way of holding them. On a big boat, you need fancy (=expensive) clutches, but on a small one, you could get away with jammers or maybe even simple cleats.

I had a winch at the mast that I moved next to the companionway on the halyard side, but I haven't had to use it. If it's too hard to pull the main up on a boat under 30ft by hand, I would think something's not right. The first thing I'd try is a squirt of PTFE or silicone spray on the sliders and mast slot
Click to expand...

You need to tension the tack (luff) reefing point forward to react against the pull aft at the clew. If you just pull it down you will end up pulling against the slug or bolt rope in the mast and the sail will not get enough foot tension and or be very distorted around the tack. You put the reef in when wind is strong so you need everything tight and flat. Exactly why a roller reef is so aweful.
Regarding winch next to the companionway I have 4 winches here and use and value them all for halyards and reefing lines even outhaul and vang. This on a 21ft TS albeit with bigish main. olewill
 
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