Single Line Slab Reefing Question

[LindseyG]

I currently have a Sailtainer in boom reefing system. It works fine when there is no wind, but once the wind picks up even pointing directly into wind getting the sail up or down becomes a bit troublesome.

Plan A is to get rid of it and go for single line reefing with all lines run back to the cockpit and a stackpack/layzyjacks on the boom to collect the sail when we reef.

Seeds of doubt were cast in my wife's mind the other day when chatting to our neighbour and they indicated that even with lines back to the cockpit and a stackpack they still need to go up to the mast to get the sails sorted out when reefing.

We are both pretty new to this and would appreciate understanding others experiences of using this system.

Plan B is to change the mast and go for in mast reefing but I'm not convinced I want to go to that level of expense.

Thanks

 

[rudolph_hart]

Current and two previous boats had single-line reefing. The whole point of them is that you don't have to go forward to the mast to sort anything out.

The only downside is that you have much more line to winch in when reefing.

 

[davidej]

Seeds of doubt were cast in my wife's mind the other day when chatting to our neighbour and they indicated that even with lines back to the cockpit and a stackpack they still need to go up to the mast to get the sails sorted out when reefing.

I don't see why.

The point about single line slab reefing is that you don't have to go up to the mast.

The snag can be that there can be a lot of friction in the system as it involves up to 5 blocks.

 

[earlybird]

I've got a Selden boom with single line reefing, no stack-pack. Taking in a reef is fine. Letting it out again is not so easy. The cars within the boom create a lot of friction which the main halliard struggles to overcome, so I usually take a trip forward to the mast to pull out the reefing lines.

 

[colhel]

Isn't there something in one of (this months) mags this covering this subject?

 

[alan17]

single line reefing

I also have single line reefing. Mine is fine to reef but I also choose to go to mast when shaking out. There is a lot of friction which I plan to try to reduce but going forward when shaking out is no problem. After all one shakes out when conditions have eased.

I for one would not have in mast. Seen too many problems.

 

[richardbrennan]

I have single line reefing on my Westerly Ocean 33 along with a fully battened main with lazyjacks and a stackpack. The sail goes up and down easily but with two provisos. The first of these is that you must be pointing directly into wind, otherwise when pulling the sail up the battens snag in the lazyjacks, and when getting it down it will hang over the side rather than fold more or less neatly on top of the boom. Also the sail needs to be free running on the mast, I have roller bearing cars but if you have sailslides you might have a problem. The second point is that although it is easy to put a reef in, albeit wth lots of string in the cockpit as pointed out by Rudolph, it is much harder to shake the reefs out as you are relying on the halyard pulling through all the reefing lines depending on how many reefs you have in and you really do need, in my experience, to pull the lines through manually at either end of the boom which will need a trip to the mast albeit in improving conditions. Finally, if you have a third reef it is almost certain that you will have to hook that on at the mast as the boom will not be long enough to accomodate a long enough line for both the luff and the leach. Once hooked on, you can then bring down the leach from the cockpit. I know this sounds perhaps a little pessamistic, but I certainly prefer this system as it does not have the potential for jamming that in mast reefing has, it also maintains the sail area of your boat and in my experience you still get a good shape to the sail.

I hope this helps? If you are anywhere near Gosport you are welcome to come and have a play.

 

[SHUG]

I had single line reefing on my 43ft boat but was not totally convinced.
PLUS: you can pull in up to two reefs from the cockpit
MINUS: I still preferred to use the horn at the goosneck to get decent luff tension.
There was a lot of friction when shaking out the reef.
The third reef had to be "conventional".

If I replaced it I would either have slab reefing or twin line reefing.

 

[wazza]

We bought a new main sail & decided whilst we were at it to get single line reefing, as always we hadn't calculated enough in our budget for this, that and the other.. the price obviously went up & up BUT now its there its fantasic we DON'T have to go up to the mast in a blow. We have the stack pack and because of it being a new sail it can be a little of a bark to get into the pack.
Absolutely no regrets, its a great way to reef in complete safety.. I'd warmly recommend it

 

[charles_reed]

I currently have a Sailtainer in boom reefing system. It works fine when there is no wind, but once the wind picks up even pointing directly into wind getting the sail up or down becomes a bit troublesome.

Plan A is to get rid of it and go for single line reefing with all lines run back to the cockpit and a stackpack/layzyjacks on the boom to collect the sail when we reef.

Seeds of doubt were cast in my wife's mind the other day when chatting to our neighbour and they indicated that even with lines back to the cockpit and a stackpack they still need to go up to the mast to get the sails sorted out when reefing.

We are both pretty new to this and would appreciate understanding others experiences of using this system.

Plan B is to change the mast and go for in mast reefing but I'm not convinced I want to go to that level of expense.

Thanks

The enemy of single line reefing and all back-to-cockpit lines is friction.

I single-hand extensively and, for the last 8 years in the Med have an oversize, fully battened main with single-line reefing on the two lower reefs (of 4).

I can confirm that lifting is difficult and lowering the main is impossible unless head to wind.
Keeping the batten cars well-lubricated (I use Sailkote PTFE dry lubricant) is probably the greatest variable and the smallest diameter rope (I use 8mm Dyneema) and Harken ball-bearing blocks also help dramatically.
My arrangement gives a 4:1 purchase, so putting in a reef, using the coachroof winch, is no problem, but results in an awful lot of string in the cockpit.
Lifting the main is no problem, only the 1st 2 battens can foul the lazyjacks, putting in a reef takes about 30 seconds, but requires careful play with Vang and gas-strut to get curvature and leech properly set.

In terms of effort in-mast furling requires about 10% of the exertion, but produces considerably inferior sailing performance.

PS In the Med, on an 80nm trip I'll quite frequently reef and shake out reefs 10-12 times, especially beating up against the meltemi.

 

[nigel1]

Single line reefing on a 47 ft boat with Z Spars rig. Blocks on the luff and leach, and sheaves each end of the boom.
Found that when putting the reef in, the luff block can land badly on the boom and create a lot of friction.
Found the solution to carefully mark the halyard at a point where it can be stopped off leaving the luff reef block just above the boom.
Works great on the first reef. Problem is, the second reef sheaves are on the same side of the sail as the first reef, so the usual result is that the second reef block fouls up on top of the first reef block.
The third reef is two lines, so no problem.
Reef early, avoid the hardship.
BTW, I have no problem shaking out the reefs

 

[exfinnsailor]

Its easier to shorten sail than put the sail up shortened. So hoist to the top and then let it down while winching in the reefing lines. Also use teflon spray to make the sail drop easily. Worst case is you let everything go and it should finish up in the stack pack.

 

[neil1967]

I was going to go for single line reefing on our next boat, but if the main objection to conventional slab reefing is going to the mast, what is wrong with twin line reefing? Ok, I know you need more clutches, but there is less friction and a cheaper boom (presumably), less to go wrong, and less line in the cockpit. Or am I missing something?

Neil

 

[maby]

Our previous boat had conventional single line reefing and friction was always a problem. Our new boat has a variation in which there is a reefing line that is attached to the two reef points in the sail, then comes down into the boom via a pair of sheaves and loops round a free block in the boom. The actual reefing line is attached to that block and when you reef, it pulls the block along the boom towards the mast, drawing the line attached to the sail with it and thus shortening the sail. So far it seems to run a lot more smoothly.

 

[Tranona]

I currently have a Sailtainer in boom reefing system. It works fine when there is no wind, but once the wind picks up even pointing directly into wind getting the sail up or down becomes a bit troublesome.

Plan A is to get rid of it and go for single line reefing with all lines run back to the cockpit and a stackpack/layzyjacks on the boom to collect the sail when we reef.

Seeds of doubt were cast in my wife's mind the other day when chatting to our neighbour and they indicated that even with lines back to the cockpit and a stackpack they still need to go up to the mast to get the sails sorted out when reefing.

We are both pretty new to this and would appreciate understanding others experiences of using this system.

Plan B is to change the mast and go for in mast reefing but I'm not convinced I want to go to that level of expense.

Thanks

Whatever you do is going to be expensive. If you go slab reefing with or without single line you will need a new boom and probably a new mainsail - plus clutches, organisers etc. As others have noted it may still not be trouble free.

In mast will also be expensive - new mast, boom and sail, although for cruising the loss in "performance" is more than made up by the gain in ease of handling and the ability to match your sail area to conditions - all without leaving the cockpit. However, if you want those benefits, best to buy a boat with it already fitted.

Might be worth talking to a knowledgeable sailmaker to see if there is anything you can do to improve your current set up - although what you report is one of the reasons why those systems have never really caught on.

 

[oldvarnish]

I drastically reduced the friction in a single line (Selden) system by having it re-rigged with Dyneema - just as strong, if not stronger, but less thick which means less friction.
I have no problem pulling down reefs even with wind in the sail. To let reefs out I always overhaul at the boom end, not the mast, and it goes up with not too much effort. Having said that, I do seem to spend longer on the winch than I ever did with a conventional slab system, but I don't have to go to the mast.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I was going to go for single line reefing on our next boat, but if the main objection to conventional slab reefing is going to the mast, what is wrong with twin line reefing? Ok, I know you need more clutches, but there is less friction and a cheaper boom (presumably), less to go wrong, and less line in the cockpit. Or am I missing something?

Neil

Dual line or twin line reefing is superb. Why? Cuz you need hardly any tension at all in the tack and you needs tons of pull at the clew. One line simply can't do either very well.

We have Harken cars on our mast, helps a lot, although they are heavy to pull up.

Lazy Jack Trick
Many folks complain about full battens getting caught up when raising the mainsail. They then spend a lot of time moving BOTH sides of the lazy jacks to the mast.

We developed an easier way with our lazy jacks.

We have a small cleat on the forward starboard side of the boom. When we put the halyard on the headboard, we move ONLY the starboard side of the lazy jacks forward and snug them under the forward side of the horn of this cleat.

Then, when we raise the mainsail, instead of going exactly head to wind, we bear off a tad to starboard so the wind is coming from the port side of the bow.

We then raise the mainsail and it doesn't get hooked on the lazy jacks even though the port side jacks are still there.

Been working for 13 years.

Yes, we have to go forward again to unhook the starboard lazy jack for dousing the sail, but there's never any hurry.

So, for those of you with lazy jacks, consider doing only one side.

Your boat, your choice.

 

[bobgarrett]

We have single line reefing on current and previous boats and would not be without it.
Yes friction can be a problem and there is more rope, but better more rope easily pulled from a safe position. Like some others I prefer to free off a reef by pulling through from the mast but I dont have to. Use lots of silicon spray.

 

[blackbeard]

Mine is only a little 25' boat so everything should be easy.
As originally set up the single line reefing wasn't easy, in fact it was a right pain. And dangerous. I have heard it said of similar systems that "it's ok, you just have to stand up as high as you can on the edge of the cockpit, and reach up to pull the lines through" which is asking for an MOB.
It has now been considerably modified and works well, putting a reef in or shaking it out is quick and easy.
As has been said, friction is the enemy. Reduce friction at every opportunity.
Don't lead a line through a cringle. Instead use a small block at both "tack" and "clew"; I leave this to your ingenuity. Preferably a ball bearing block.
Use a thinner, light line. As you are now using blocks, instead of leading the line through a cringle where rough edges can saw through, chafe shouldn't be a problem, lines on my set-up show no signs of chafe after about 5 years. Doesn't have to be one of the newer high-strength low-stretch cores in the lines, but it could be, if you are rich enough or fortunate in your hunt through the reel-ends bargain box.
An incidental advantage is that (with a little more ingenuity) the first reef can be tied in with a couple of sail ties and the lines and blocks very easily transferred to the third reef position (assuming you can't get more than 2 lines in the boom as currently set up). I have only done this once, in harbour after seeing the weather forecast!

And once again, look for ways of reducing friction. It's amazing how it can build up.

 

[William_H]

I was going to go for single line reefing on our next boat, but if the main objection to conventional slab reefing is going to the mast, what is wrong with twin line reefing? Ok, I know you need more clutches, but there is less friction and a cheaper boom (presumably), less to go wrong, and less line in the cockpit. Or am I missing something?

Neil

I totally agree with Neil 2 line reefing is far better. Fortunately it is easy to convert from single line to 2 line reefing. For the OP he could try just one quite deep reef. This will change the handling of the boat enormously in strong winds while still giving useful drive as the wind slackens off. Obviously one deep reef is no good for racing or for real storm conditions. Hopefully you can avoid storms by staying home. If you have survived with boom roller reefing then one deep reef should be a huge benefit. good luck olewill