Single-line reefing - Is it just me?

[Yotlinx]

Single-Line Reefing – Is it just me?

Having spend a number of years now chartering many different yachts and having spent the last 4 days beating to windward is strong winds, including 1 day in F8/9, I conclude that single-line reefing is not only irritating, it’s dangerous!

Just about every charter boat I have been on in recent years seems to have two single-line reefs. When you ask about the 3rd reef there is usually a bit of arm waving and some mumbling about short bits of rope and shackles that may or may not be found in certain lockers with which you can make do, but ‘best not to go out if you think you’ll need it’. The third line, if it’s reeved through the boom is rarely reeved through the sail leach, something you’ll need to check if you are going out in stiff conditions.

As far as I am concerned there is too much line, too much friction associated with single-lines. The main argument for safety is that you can reef safely from the cockpit. Personally I’d rather deal with a cringle and horn at the mast than with all the extra rope, especially the loops that end up hanging from the boom before you get them safely away.

However, the real clincher for me is that you have anyway to deal with the 3rd reef at the mast. If you can do this safely in the conditions that require that 3rd reef, then you certainly won’t have a problem with reefs one and two!

So it’s back to simple slab reefing for me, except I mostly charter so have to live with the popular choice. But, is it just me?

 

[mormargh]

I'm with you. Too much line and abundant opportunities for chafe, and the luff always stretches.

A tip on charter boats: Rig a messenger line in a loop between the second and third reefing eyes at the leech. When you put the second reef in, you can relead the first as the third if you think you might need it.

 

[fireball]

You've got to remember that charter boats kit is not nescersarily as good as privately owned boats kit ... We have single line reefing, with the addition of 2 blocks it works really well ... and certainly saves going up to the mast ...
We don't have the 3rd reef fitted, but we don't generally venture out when it would be required - so no point fitting!! If it is that bad then you can always put the sail away and motor ... or put the sail away, move the 2nd reef up to the 3rd reefing cringle and re-hoist ...
If we chartered out then we'd have to change the system ... but single line reefing can work - but with all things there are plusses and minuses to each system.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

I agree entirely with Yotlinx.
I use single line reefing to pull down the reef and then use the horns at the gooseneck to secure the luff so what's the point in having single line? I have rigged a slab reefing line for the third reef so........ditto. I find that the friction when taking out the reef makes it a very slow job. What if something goes wrong inside the boom when you really need to get that reef in.
I think that it is a good idea gone wrong!!!!
Small boats, Spectra lines and ball bearing blocks probably do the business but simple slab reefing should be the first choice for serious cruising.

 

[geoffatstanpit]

I used to help run a club boat (Maxi 1000 with Selden SLR) and we made it a condition that all charterers watch a video I made of how it works. If you don't understand what is trying to happen inside the boom you are sure to either break something or at least have the trolley thing come off its runners and shed its little rollers inside the boom. The latter is what makes it stiff !!!

 

[davidfox]

Works for me, but then again, My system works

 

[solentsailor]

I had similar setup in my last boat but easy to remedy by a reroute of reefing lines. Put 1st reef on cringle and reworked the lines so second and third reef worked from cockpit. When it's really blowy you don't want to leave the safety of the cockpit. When you need 1 st reef it's just getting blowy and sea conditions mean that it is simple to go to the mast at that time.
New boat has inmast furling so now opted out of that problem - til inmast fails ...

 

[fireball]

Ah - that's because it has a block2block inside the boom - not really single line is it ?!
We have .... a single line .... nothing can get tangled up inside the boom ... if it all goes wrong and the line parts (no wear yet) we've still got the horns and can sort out the clew ....
With decent blocks there isn't a huge amount of friction ...

 

[vyv_cox]

I've had a double block system on reefs 1 and 2 for almost 20 years, on two boats. It's the Z-spars system, not the far more complicated Kemp/Selden one, although I installed it a long time before Z-spars ever claimed it.

We find it to be excellent and have never had any reservations about its use. Either of us can take in a reef, on almost any point of sailing, within about a minute and without leaving the cockpit. The in-boom blocks have never jammed, although the very first ones I used were simply a pair of singles shackled together and wrapped with line.

As others have said, best not to judge the effectiveness of anything after experiencing it on a charter boat. Properly set up and maintained a single line system can be perfect.

On the very rare occasions when I have needed a third reef I used the ramshorn that is retained at the gooseneck, in combination with a 3:1 tackle at the clew. No problem at all.

 

[BlueChip]

Ive got SLR with all three reefs controlled
Wouldn't ever be without it. SWMBO and I can do all the reefing easily from the cockpit without having to go to the mast.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Same here current and two previous boats have had SLR, all had or have Seldon rig. Never a problem.

I've just had a new main sail made with a third reef in it and will need to give some thought as to how to deploy it. However I sail for fun, if its going to be a forecast 6 (which means a 7 likely) I try and avoid sailing.

 

[Salty John]

Excellent summation of the situation. All that rope, all that friction and then, when perhaps you do need to stay in the cockpit, you have to go to the mast anyway!
I've never understood this obsession with sailing a boat entirely from the cockpit. There was a picture in one of the mags last month of a bloke behind his wheel, like he was driving a car, and in front of him was an incredible array of electronics - screens for everything. At night it must be a nightmare trying to see anything beyond the boat with all that glare.
Keep it simple, I say. Get used to moving round the boat, clipped on if appropriate, seeing how she looks from different angles, checking things here and there, enjoying the feel of sailing not sitting behind the wheel driving her like a car.
I digress. Sorry!

 

[Poignard]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never understood this obsession with sailing a boat entirely from the cockpit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nor I. In the old days people actually used to go on the foredeck and change headsails. Imagine! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[FullCircle]

I have single line for all three reefs, which required a bit of extra tackle. My third reef line is 36m long (35ft boat) and is all led to the cockpit. We have rope bags on the bulkhead so it all stows away.

It comes down very easily, just keep winding.

Getting it back out requires a lot more effort, but is not impossible, and besides, the weather is getting better at that point,no?

Besides setting the emergency forestay and hanking on the storm jib, there is no need to go forward on our boat.

When I order the new main next year, I will have better cheek blocks sewn into the luff for the 3rd reef, the current eye does create friction.

 

[beneteau_305_553]

Two lines for each reef is my preference. One at tack and one at clew.
And a downhaul to secure the sail when main right down.

 

[Master_and_Commander]

With all due respect, most Charter boats are not permitted out in anything F6 or over, so the 3rd reef would not normally be made use of. Secondly, single line reefing is an easier system for charter companies who are lending their yachts to epople with an indeterminate amount of knowledge. They (in most cases) don't ask for proof of your sailing experience, and they never know who will be chartering their craft.
I have been on several charters where others on my flotilla have never sailed before (and in some instances, never should again!!)

I gues at the end of the day though it all comes down to personal choice

 

[Danny Jo]

[ QUOTE ]
As far as I am concerned there is too much line, too much friction associated with single-lines. The main argument for safety is that you can reef safely from the cockpit. Personally I’d rather deal with a cringle and horn at the mast than with all the extra rope, especially the loops that end up hanging from the boom before you get them safely away.


[/ QUOTE ] No it's not just you. Freestyle had a "single-line" system with in-boom cars for the first two reefs, but this system could not be used for the third reef, because there is not enough room in the boom for the necessary slack for the 3rd reef's leech line. I too was struck by the absurdity of a system designed to avoid going to the mast that required you to go to the mast when conditions required a third reef. But the real clincher for me was the enormous palava required to shake out the reefs (not to mention the occasion when one of the in-boom cars jammed) - so much so that I found myself delaying putting in a reef in the hope that the wind would moderate soon. This incitement to bad seamanship had to go. Converting to conventional slab reefing required dismantling of the boom, but I feel much happier for having shelled out for that, and a mast winch for the main halyard.

 

[Norman_E]

I have only two reefs, the second one being very deep, not quite third reef position, but at least 2.5! I rigged that one with twin lines, both led back to the cockpit, and that works well. The first reef is traditional slab reef, and I am going to fit that with a single line system with two blocks back to back inside the boom. My own view is that for deep reefs a twin line system offers less friction, and I plan to improve mine further with blocks fitted at the sail cringles, rather than the reefing lines going through. This is because on the present setup I have to pull lots of slack into the reefing lies before I can hoist the sail, though there is no probem in putting the reefs in.

 

[brianhumber]

Re: Single-line reefing - A good system

Sorry in my exprience this system is not a problem. Changed my boom a couple of years ago to single line reefing and never looked back. Now can reef very safely easily and quickly when wind pipesup crossing the channel at night and have 3rd reef very simply rigged up to get very flat blade on 3rd reef without having to leave cockpit as well. You can pull in single handed reefs one and two ( Baraccudas have bloody big mainsails and long booms running to the stern) so I do not understand why you are having problems .
Your description just confirms my opinion when I went briefly chartering in the 80s that such boats are without exception not set up, maintained or fitted out properly for heavy weather and thus to be avoided. Talking to charter owners they all complained about the abuse the charters give to the boats and how they only did the bare maintenance as the next charter would only break the boat again or they needed the all money to fund the boat and its running costs.

Brian

 

[PhilipH]

SLR is just great if set up right - we have first reef with cringle to horns at mast and then second and third reef are taken in from cockpit. Really smooth and efficient. OK, so you end up with a lot of rope but it can be managed. Rather be in the cockpit in F8 than on deck.