Since when

Scillypete

Scillypete

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11 Jun 2003
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Isles of Scilly
www.peteandspamgosailing.blogspot.com
Has it been against any law to carry out of date flares, in this months YM a British flagged yacht (I assume) was threatened with a fine for carrying out of date flares in Calais. Now I know the French can be a law unto themselves at times but surely as a British flagged yacht the safety equipment it carries does not have to meet their criteria for French flagged boats.
 
Carrying out of dates flares could be conceived as dangerous, and as these are explosives I would have thought any country is within its rights to legislate against them. What if the flares exploded, and the fire spread to another boat in the marina etc...
Don't see why just because the boat is British flagged they sould not have to conform to the country's regulations.

When you drive your car in France, you could be fined if you do not have a distress triangle. That is an example of compliance to another country's safety standards.


(edited after I re-read the post and realised it was not about inland waters at all)
 
Correct! But it is quite clear that the French are quite ignorant of that fact. I was boarded by a very bored group of customs "apprentices" in big boots off Ouistreham last year who insisted that I fill in a form. One of the things on the form was gross tonnage. Being a cat I have never even thought about gross tonnage and did not fill it in. They insisted that by law I should know my GT which is of course bollix. They only gave up after I insisted there was no law that said I had to fill in any form anyway and the onus was on them to find fault not me to prove anything. Grrrr!!
 
Rubbish! There is no law that says a British registered vessel has to carry in date flares when in French waters and the main problem with OOD flares is that they wont work at all, not that they will explode.
 
Ok, I should explain that I wrote the above having mis-read the post thinking it was about Inland Waters (yes I know read more carefully etc).
I then edited it so that it still made some kind of sense, but I as a result I disagree with what I wrote... If only there was a delete option!

In any case I said that carrying out of date flares 'could be conceived' as dangerous, not that it was.
 
Been looking at French regulations and cannot see anything there about out of date flares (except that for French flagged vessels, they cannot be considered to be part of the legal safety inventory). On a similar forum to this French yachties report contradictory advice from the douaniers!
 
We have none of these problems when we go foreign up here. We get welcomed with open arms, treated courteously, made to drink copious amounts of Guinness, spoken to in English and not robbed for mooring. Perhaps you sail in the wrong area.
 
[ QUOTE ]
the main problem with OOD flares is that they wont work at all, not that they will explode.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually not so true.

There is a danger that micro cavities can appear in the pyro/prpellant, hence the 3 year limit.

However, I remember an RNLI test a few years ago which tended to suggest that the older flares were actually more reliable. admitedly there was too small a sample for any degree of statistical accuracy, however this trial was very quickly supressed.
 
[ QUOTE ]
When you drive your car in France, you could be fined if you do not have a distress triangle.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you don't, provided the car is fitted with hazard lights.
 
[ QUOTE ]
No you don't, provided the car is fitted with hazard lights.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know that. I thought you had to have the following in France:

Warning triangle
Spare set of light bulbs
First aid kit
Spare pair of prescription glasses (if worn)

...or face on the spot fines.
 
If you read the article in full you will see that the owner had no Registration Documents (although apparently he later found them but AFTER Customs had departed). This is guaranteed to pi$$ off the French and usually results in a hefty fine itself. I would venture to suggest that had the correct Registration papers been available when requested they would not have delved further into any equipment 'non-compliance' offences.

As a British registered vessel, as you correctly say, there is no legal need to carry in-date flares or any other safety gear. However in this case the skipper was unable to find the papers and therefore how could he claim the vessel to be British? Nit picking I know but a salutary reminder to all to have all the correct paperwork on board and ready for inspection when requested.
 
As you say, threatened. Presumably we don't know if they would have carried this out, and whether it would have stacked up in a court of law.

Wouldn't have thought so.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't know that. I thought you had to have the following in France:

Warning triangle
Spare set of light bulbs
First aid kit
Spare pair of prescription glasses (if worn)

...or face on the spot fines.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my understanding too and really quite sensible even if not a legal requirement. Mind you changing a bulb on some cars these days is a workshop job, but then I suspect the law doesn't say you must actually change a faulty bulb, just have a spare on in the boot!
 
Spare light bulbs -

No. You need working light bulbs. If yours are working perfectly they cannot do you.

If one has blown and you cannot immediately replace it - well that is another matter - hence the RECOMMENDATION that a spare set is carried. Never bother myself as I have lost one side light bulb in the last ten years total, so willing to take the risk!
 
[ QUOTE ]
No you don't, provided the car is fitted with hazard lights.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the correction, that's true, provided the weight of the car / van including load is under 3500kgs (so if you have a Dicovery 3 you just about get away without it!).
Otherwise, and if you have a trailer or a caravan the triangle is required as well hazard lights.
 
Correct. If you cannot change the lightbulb there and then they have the power to impound your car. I would have thought a set of spares was worth the investment...
 
There was actually a study done (I think by QunetiQ, Qnetic, KinetQ sod it DRA!) that suggested the 3 year life was not defensible. PROVIDED that the flares were keft in a waterproof container and kept above 5degC. Take 'em home in the winter so they don't freeze and they appear to last 10 years not 3..... But Pains Wessex etc would say 3 wouldn't they? They want to sell you new ones!
 
That puts it in another catagory. If the guy was not carrying (or could not present) the right papers that explains him getting a bad time.
 
[ QUOTE ]


That puts it in another catagory. If the guy was not carrying (or could not present) the right papers that explains him getting a bad time.


[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently after they had left he searched again and found the Reg Docs and took them to the local Customs Office, but the officers that he had dealt with didn't come from there but came from another town. It sounds like he routinely left the Reg Docs on board which IMO is a bit risky anyway in the event of a theft, but in this case also in the event of loss of memory!

We keep all our papers in one place, like Part 1 Reg, Insurance, Radio and operator licenses, liferaft cert, ICC, etc plus anything else useful on 'foreign' trips all together in a PBO giveaway canvas briefcase which usually resides at home. If we go 'foreign' we then just add our passports and currency if not already in there and take it with us all together. I wouldn't leave this briefcase on board normally, far too risky these days not just the risk of boat theft but now for identity theft as well.
 
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