Simple reversing question

[ColinMorris]

I have a Sadler 32 with a reasonable kick to starboard when going into reverse. It steers quite well once there is some way on. My question is quite simple - when starting to reverse out from my berth and wanting to steer to port against the kick should I a) keep the tiller central until some way is on and then turn, or b) start off from stationary with the tiller across to counter the kick. I've been told by different people both a) and b) are correct!! Any thoughts??

Colin

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[hlb]

Have you thought of practicing a few times, some where safe, till you find the best method??

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Haydn

 

[jamesjermain]

Both

Both are correct since neither makes much difference. Until you have way on it doesn't matter much whether you have the helm over or not. In favour of no helm is the fact that the boat will pick up way quicker. In favour of helm over is that you will get the immediate benefit of any water dragged forward over the rudder and, once way is on, you will start turning quicker - swings and roundabouts.

Why not, though, keep a bow spring on, give a kick ahead with the helm towards the pontoon so the stern kicks out. While it is still swinging, drop the spring, engage astern and by the time the stern has started to come back in you will have steerage?

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[jimi]

In the absence of other factors such as wind or tide, what I do is give the engine a really good blast to get the boat going and a bit of water flow over the rudder. I put the rudder over hard to start with 1) to maximise any steerage in that direction and 2 ) to avoid damage if the rudder is banged against the stops.

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[Evadne]

I follow all the above advice, and I still get the feeling she does forwards and sideways only, not reverse. If the wind on the bows balances the prop kick you can reverse in a straight line, although the direction may not be precise enough to avoid hitting pontoons in a marina. If they don't, then forget it. Jimi is right but I find there is never an absence of wind and/or tide. Spring her out as described but work out where she is going to turn and just go with it.
You can sometimes use the "weaving" method (as demonstrated at our owners' meeting last year by Mr Jinks at HMS Hornet) where you pick up way astern then put her into neutral and steer to counterbalance the prop kick, putting in bursts of power as needed. It's never worked for me, though.

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[Jacket]

The problem with putting the rudder hard over is that on most boats this is just stalling the rudder- having an angle of attack to the water flow of above 20 degrees stalls the rudder, so you get lots of drag, and a much reduced turning force. (which is why putting the helm over from lock to lock is a good way of getting speed off a boat).

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[Twister_Ken]

Sang-froid

I'm also a sufferer from dubious reversing. I found the real trick is slow speed, lots of fenders, and a happy-go-lucky look on your face that says to anybody watching "Well, that's just what I expected her to do."

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[jimi]

Stalling the rudder is irrelevant when your starting with zero water flow anyway. However my main reason is to avoid damage to the rudder or the stops. I understand this problem 'cos my boat kicks hard to port and I'm in a relatively tight port side to berth with another boat alongside on my starboard side. I find the only way to do it is get moving and then take the throttle right off. Personally I do'nt go against the kick unless there is enough wind to blow my bow round, I usually just go with prop walk and reverse all the way out.

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[StugeronSteve]

Not only have we got the same boats, but similar marina berth problems. I lie port side to with less than 1 mtr between me and a 40ft mobo. If crew available i usually get the boat walked down the first few metres of the berth holding the bows
in, once there's some way on it's slight starboard wheel to counteract the walk and out. Due to ther length of the mobo i tend to back round to stbd against the walk, then go ahead and hard to port to leave the marina. If the wind is on my port bow I let her get back past the mobo's bows and use the wind / prop walk to spin her round to port and back out. Similar technique with lighter crew but use a slipped spring line to hold her steady for a start.

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[Evadne]

Re: Sang-froid

Hi Ken, I do agree. The best advice I could give is that if you are going to hit something that isn't yours, do it slowly. That way there is less damage to either party and fewer bills. I speak from extensive experience on this matter.
I've also found that if it is successful, manuevering at a max. speed of 1kt makes it looks like you know what you're doing. There is a sort of cool professionalism exuded that exceeds what you feel at the time by a rediculous amount. It also makes those on stationary boats feel a lot less apprehensive.


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[Rob_Webb]

Definitely agree that you should practice somewhere quiet to put all the theory into practice. One last thing in case it wasn't explict from the other replies, I find it helps to start with the rudder at full lock and give the engine a good blast of say 10-15s to get moving - initially my boat will only go straight astern at this point if prop is balancing rudder - but then throttle back to slow astern or even neutral and watch the rudder take effect. Add more power as required.....

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[Sergeant_Pepper]

Just as an extra thought, if you have a fixed three bladed prop such as mine, the prop walk can cancel any amount of steerage to starboard when astern. So, to reverse out of my slip I need to get some modest momentum and THEN put the prop in neutral. I then have perfect control. I see the additional advantage being that when I have completed my turn I can put her in forward gear immediately without worrying about the sudden change etc. Try it. This might just make your life a little easier.



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[Gezzer]

I stand back in awe at the ben's bav's and jan's in the Marina all reversing in and out of their berths and the way that they bask in the satisfaction that it will go the way that it's steered in reverse.

With my Hurley 24/70 ( Fin & Skeg, Big prop) every time I Leave the marina it's a voyage of discovery, where will it go this time, just when I feel that I have the prop kick figured it throws in a googly.

It all sounds so simple, Port side to mooring, Strong port kick in reverse, marina exit to starboard, kick will bring bows to point towards exit, but with any wind above a force smidgen, and anywhere easterly of south the bows will swing against prop kick, then it's anybody's guess, I have even taken to let it go to port, and calmly moor against the hammerhead and springing out that way, looks like you meant to do it if you act calm.

I have tried it with all sorts of tiller angles, hard over , burst of power, nuetral, and even winding it up and letting go, ( to try to get some wash over rudder), moved a bit quick in tight marina for my liking, and did not fancy creating a Hurley shaped dent in the transom of nice Gibsea 42 behind me.

I have now taken the view that If the conditions look they will produce problems I
rig a bow line and power in reverse against it, just seems a bit extreme in a 24ft boat.






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[StugeronSteve]

The wind her up and let her go trick is always good for entertaining the observers! Weekend after it was described in YM boat handling I saw a Bav give it a try - shot back off one hammer head and straight up the transom of the boat on the one behind. When it comes to manoeuvering in a tight marina berth If you can't do it slowly don't do it is my motto, a gentle bump costs no more than an apology, but a bang costs folding money.

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[Twister_Ken]

Is that Humperdinck?

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[Robin]

That and several others from another mag. We had the stern ladder on our old boat crushed 24 hrs after launching for the season by one of these so called experts teaching club members in our marina.

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[SNAFU]

(Whispering) yes ...

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