Simi. Possibly illegal tax?

[Norman_E]

I just checked in to Greece in Simi.
I was charged:
€5 for the harbour man to take my lines.
€15 by the Harbourmaster. I don't know what for.
€7.36 including VAT Harbour charge for one night. There was no working electricity.
€20 by the Customs Officer. This is for bringing an EU (British) registered VAT paid Yacht crewed entirely by EU citizens into Greece from Turkey.

How can it possibly be legal to charge for bringing anything that is EU registered, owned and VAT paid into the EU?

I only went into Greece because I need to take the yacht out of Turkey every 5 years, and decided to do it before the new tax is implemented. The effort the Greeks appear to go to deter visitors makes it very easy to understand why their country is in such a mess.

P.S. Simi Town kept up its 100% record with us of getting the anchor fouled. This time on leaving it picked up a chain that was wound completely round the anchor shank. It did not appear to belong to any moored boat, but was probably just abandoned chain, though it was firmly attached to the bottom.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Normally it was 15 euros if you entered into Greece , don't ask why , I don't know , you needed to check in so you had no choice , most people I know just don't check out to go to Turkey , YES I know , you suppose to check out and then back in .
The 5 euros rope man , we did our own and wouldn't let him touch them . ( that's a joke ) , Harbour dues , no one came around .

Best place to be in Symi if you want to be near the town is Pedi . Bus runs offen to the town or it a nice 45 mins walk .

 

[ip485]

I wouldnt bother with the town quay, just anchor around the corner and walk up and over into symi or stay in the bay a couple further on with the little monastery must be one of the most beatiful places in the world.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I wouldnt bother with the town quay, just anchor around the corner and walk up and over into symi or stay in the bay a couple further on with the little monastery must be one of the most beatiful places in the world.

Problem was the OP had to check in ,
The little bay with the monastery was packed the other night . For half of the night all you heard was people shout at other as they drag taken other with them .not sure why they where dragging has I always found the hold very good here . Maybe they forgot to put there anchor on the end of the chain . Althought it a nice little bay this morning .

 

[OldBawley]

I just checked in to Greece in Simi.


P.S. Simi Town kept up its 100% record with us of getting the anchor fouled. This time on leaving it picked up a chain that was wound completely round the anchor shank. It did not appear to belong to any moored boat, but was probably just abandoned chain, though it was firmly attached to the bottom.

I know of three places where anchors get fouled miraculous. Always places where a diver is at first hand to free your fouled anchor. And maybe,... maybe doing something else with your neighbours anchor.
Mandraki harbour, Rhodes.
We arrive from Turkey to do a salvage job. Big catamaran, three experienced skippers on board. Drop anchor, strait line to the quay, landlines. After three days of work the job is done, and just to piss off the local diver who claims he is the only one entitled to dive into Mandraki harbour we dive all three. ( Mandraki is shallow )
To find our chain wrapped two times around one of the metal ribs of some sunken boat.

Miracle.

Kea island, same miraculous fouling.
Simi main harbour...... Maybe,,,,,,Maybe.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Has reported not so long ago , there a chain that runs along side the charter quay in Rhodes , it around 20 35 mts away from the wall , there mooring lines all alone the wall but the harbour master won't let you use them one yacht that did get In and ues them got a right going over by him .
Drop the ancor way out and use a tripping line , it got us out of a problem . Unlucky we fouled on it .
I also reported that you could still anchor by the boat yard , ( see Rod plain ) I need to change that , on the way back we did and within 10 mins the local police as there moving us on , my feeling is the boat yard called them . But there was some yacht anchored by the wind mills on the other side of the harbour wall

 

[macd]

Haven't been into Simi recently, but these notes from the CA's site seem relevant:

(http://www.theca.org.uk/news/greektax#TPP)
Port Fees
Port fees (the fee for staying in a port) are collected by the municipality in which the port lies (and not by the port police*). Some municipalities have leased the management of their port to a third-party, in these cases slightly different fees may apply (see below). There will usually be a port official (Limeniko Tameio) who will visit your boat sometime after mooring to collect the appropriate fee (see below). To ensure that you are paying the genuine port official always insist on receiving a formal stamped VAT receipt showing the full amount you are being asked to pay. In Greece you are not obliged to pay if you do not receive a proper receipt.

*In some smaller ports and islands the municipality has agreed that the port police are the appropriate port official, so don't be surprised if it's the port police who ask you to pay in the smaller places (you should still ask for a proper receipt of course).

Ports where the fee collection is managed by the municipality use fee rates that are standard throughout Greece. The fees for private pleasure boats are listed below (the full list can be downloaded from here or via the link at the bottom of this page):

1. For mooring stern-to or bows-to the quay:

a. Private “small” boats/yachts:

of LOA up to 7m = €0.03 per metre per 24 hour period*

b. Private pleasure boats/yachts:

of LOA from 7,01m to 10m = €0.41 per metre per 24 hour period*

of LOA from 10,01m to 15m = €0.47 per metre per 24 hour period*

of LOA over 15,01m = €0.55 per metre per 24 hour period*

2. Alongside berthing is subject to 25% surcharge.

3. All above fees are also subject to VAT (currently 23%).

Ports where the municipality has leased the port management to a third party are known as marinas, even though they may offer no additional facilities apart from a wall to tie up to. Marinas are allowed to charge whatever they think the market will stand, they do not have to stick to the standard rates. The full service marinas with which we are all familiar have always charged their own rates of course.

In practice a port that is now a marina will usually offer extra facilities (lazy lines, water & electricity, toilets & showers, etc.) but they don't have to. If you are in any doubt about whether a port is or is not a marina you should ask the relevant port official what the mooring charges are at your earliest opportunity, and be prepared to leave if you think they are too high.

It is apparent that more and more municipalities are leasing the management of their ports to third parties, so these “marinas” might well become more widespread than they are now.

Beware! Major ports where larger ships are regularly berthed often employ Union Harbour Staff, these freelance warp handlers typically charge around €50 per task. Make very certain you do not throw lines to one of these people!

As said, it's likely that in the course of time there will be more of this, rather than less. At present we have some places where the port police have chosen to retain the resonsibility to gather charges; others where the municipality has actively taken on the job; others where it's been farmed out to independents; and yet others where no-one is doing it (such as Pythagorion, where I spent much of last week, the €0 fee including power and water).

 

[Carmel2]

If you're going to use Pedi and it blows up, the half finished wall is ok, BUT , close up at night, it's a rat haven.

 

[Norman_E]

I did try to get on the wall at Pedi, but it now has some attachment points for ropes stupidly arranged to stick out sideways from the wall, but useable. As a result the wall was fully taken.

 

[ip485]

Yep you are right one of the few places to have the anchor fouled as well - does it happen to everyone? The seabed must be littered never mind all the flot. boats failing to set their tackle straight.

 

[Sybaris]

Yes of course, how dare a Greek harbour charge any money!
Remind me, how much does it cost to moor one night in Bozborun or Datcha these days? and how much does it cost to check in to Turkey?

Per

 

[sailaboutvic]

Yes of course, how dare a Greek harbour charge any money!
Remind me, how much does it cost to moor one night in Bozborun or Datcha these days? and how much does it cost to check in to Turkey?

Per

20 Euro including power and water . Which works out cheaper then Symi and power and water is extra so It said here .

 

[ASW11]

Don't want to hijack the thread and, hopefully, I've got the right side of the story, but didn't the rule change for Schengen boats and crews last year with Greece allowing these to check in anywhere where there is a PP office ie it isn't now necessary to arrive from a non-Schengen country (eg Turkey) and only be able/have to check in at Ports of Entry?

 

[jimbaerselman]

Don't want to hijack the thread and, hopefully, I've got the right side of the story, but didn't the rule change for Schengen boats and crews last year with Greece allowing these to check in anywhere where there is a PP office ie it isn't now necessary to arrive from a non-Schengen country (eg Turkey) and only be able/have to check in at Ports of Entry?

Yes. See the detailed requirements for checking in, plus references to Greek sources, on this Cruising Association page: http://www.theca.org.uk/news/greektax#Arrival

When any changes occur, that page is updated. Members of the CA are then notified through "Mednet", the Cruising Association's Mediterranean section email forum, and Yachting mags are informed.

 

[charles_reed]

Haven't been into Simi recently, but these notes from the CA's site seem relevant:

(http://www.theca.org.uk/news/greektax#TPP)
Port Fees
Port fees (the fee for staying in a port) are collected by the municipality in which the port lies (and not by the port police*). Some municipalities have leased the management of their port to a third-party, in these cases slightly different fees may apply (see below). There will usually be a port official (Limeniko Tameio) who will visit your boat sometime after mooring to collect the appropriate fee (see below). To ensure that you are paying the genuine port official always insist on receiving a formal stamped VAT receipt showing the full amount you are being asked to pay. In Greece you are not obliged to pay if you do not receive a proper receipt.

*In some smaller ports and islands the municipality has agreed that the port police are the appropriate port official, so don't be surprised if it's the port police who ask you to pay in the smaller places (you should still ask for a proper receipt of course).

Ports where the fee collection is managed by the municipality use fee rates that are standard throughout Greece. The fees for private pleasure boats are listed below (the full list can be downloaded from here or via the link at the bottom of this page):

1. For mooring stern-to or bows-to the quay:

a. Private “small” boats/yachts:

of LOA up to 7m = €0.03 per metre per 24 hour period*

b. Private pleasure boats/yachts:

of LOA from 7,01m to 10m = €0.41 per metre per 24 hour period*

of LOA from 10,01m to 15m = €0.47 per metre per 24 hour period*

of LOA over 15,01m = €0.55 per metre per 24 hour period*

2. Alongside berthing is subject to 25% surcharge.

3. All above fees are also subject to VAT (currently 23%).

Ports where the municipality has leased the port management to a third party are known as marinas, even though they may offer no additional facilities apart from a wall to tie up to. Marinas are allowed to charge whatever they think the market will stand, they do not have to stick to the standard rates. The full service marinas with which we are all familiar have always charged their own rates of course.

In practice a port that is now a marina will usually offer extra facilities (lazy lines, water & electricity, toilets & showers, etc.) but they don't have to. If you are in any doubt about whether a port is or is not a marina you should ask the relevant port official what the mooring charges are at your earliest opportunity, and be prepared to leave if you think they are too high.

It is apparent that more and more municipalities are leasing the management of their ports to third parties, so these “marinas” might well become more widespread than they are now.

Beware! Major ports where larger ships are regularly berthed often employ Union Harbour Staff, these freelance warp handlers typically charge around €50 per task. Make very certain you do not throw lines to one of these people!

As said, it's likely that in the course of time there will be more of this, rather than less. At present we have some places where the port police have chosen to retain the resonsibility to gather charges; others where the municipality has actively taken on the job; others where it's been farmed out to independents; and yet others where no-one is doing it (such as Pythagorion, where I spent much of last week, the €0 fee including power and water).

All as above part of the new TPP - which you'll need to pay to some, as yet unnamed, national party. All local mooring fees will be collected and levied by the Demos and they will collect them.
So the Symi levy was probably NOT illegal - however I'd always demand the written credentials of anyone who came and demanded money from me.
In Limenas, Thassos, I've been officially told there are no harbour dues being collected (so far this season) but none of the power/water points are yet working so I invested €5 to share the FV point.
I'm afraid we'll have more of these indignant postings as the full import of most recent changes sink in.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I was just thinking , ( yes I do now and then ) wouldn't it be great if we had a thread where people just posted charges and only charges they have been charge has they went alone no hear say , so I started one . Let see if people bother to contribute.


http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...your-turn-to-contribute&p=5318524#post5318524

 

[Norman_E]

One last point from me. I don't object to paying, but last time I went to Symi I was charged the 15 Euros by the Harbourmaster and told that it was for bringing the boat into Greece from Turkey. This time I paid the harbourmaster the same amount and did not query what it was for, and then was charged 20 Euros by the Customs man for bringing the boat in from Turkey. I think I was charged twice for the same thing, at two different amounts.

 

[Tony Cross]

One way of determining whether what you are being asked to pay is legit is to demand a proper stamped receipt. Ideally from a pro-forma book carrying the heading of the local Demos. Remember that in Greece now you are not obliged to pay unless you receive a proper receipt or invoice. If in doubt request that the Port Police are called.