Sigma 33 crack at base of mast

[Aredz]

Hi,

Looking at buying a Sigma 33 which looks really nice overall. But i saw a crack at the base of the mast that i am curious about.

Is this something that is a major red flag?

There are no visible cracks inside or any moisture underneath the mast.

Thx

 

[greeny]

It can be. But not enough info really. Photo would help. I can only assume you mean the crack is in the deck at the foot of the mast, not in the mast section itself. There may be a Sigma "expert" around on here that can tell you of any history of habitual cracking there and why. But a photo would certainly help. Lots of 33's were raced hard. High rig tensions, Potential deck compression and cracking?

 

[capnsensible]

Sigma 33 class association might be a good source.

Great boats, in my opinion.

 

[Aredz]

Sorry, I thought the image was added to the post.

I looked quickly over the compression post. No signs of water but have not checked top top of it yet.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I would say that it is a crack in the gelcoat with a void underneath rather than a crack caused by compression simply enlarging it will tell you if it is or if it's extensive. Agree with the seller to open it up on the basis of if it is a simple break in the gelcoat with a void beneath it then you will buy the boat, if it's something more then no sale or renegotiation.

 

[doug748]

You will want specialist advice on that one Aredz, either from a someone who knows Sigmas well or a good surveyor. From the look of it I would suspect it would need a mast down repair as whatever stands between the post and the mast foot is being compressed, as greeny has hinted.

 

[justanothersailboat]

Is this boat from the sort of era where there was often a ply pad in the deck plinth part of the mast step? mine was (not a Sigma 33) and that had gone soft enough from water ingress (through a badly sealed electrical fitting) that it had started to compress. It's not that hard to dig it all out and build a block of epoxy-glass instead, then stick a bit of flowcoat over the top, but it's all work. Try a ruler over the deck plinth and see if it's dished.

If the standing rig is old enough that you would swap it anyway, sorting a mast step issue while it's down at least doesn't add much cost or delay, if you can make the time to work on it while the rigging is being made up. If you had to take the mast down just for this, that could be a bit offputting.

 

[Aredz]

Thanks for the replies!

I would say that it is a crack in the gelcoat with a void underneath rather than a crack caused by compression simply enlar

I think it might be a crack in the gelcoat as well, due to the size, location, and direction of the crack. I think it would be more alarming if the cracks were protruding outwards away from the mast step. Maybe the mast was tensioned harder on the opposite side.

But this is just speculation on my part.

You will want specialist advice on that one Aredz, either from a someone who knows Sigmas well or a good surveyor. From the look of it I would suspect it would need a mast down repair as whatever stands between the post and the mast foot is being compressed, as greeny has hinted.

I agree. I was thinking of asking the seller to open up the gelcoat where the crack is, to inspect a little deeper and get some professionals to check the rig.

Is this boat from the sort of era where there was often a ply pad in the deck plinth part of the mast step? mine was (not a Sigma 33) and that had gone soft enough from water ingress (through a badly sealed electrical fitting) that it had started to compress. It's not that hard to dig it all out and build a block of epoxy-glass instead, then stick a bit of flowcoat over the top, but it's all work. Try a ruler over the deck plinth and see if it's dished.

If the standing rig is old enough that you would swap it anyway, sorting a mast step issue while it's down at least doesn't add much cost or delay, if you can make the time to work on it while the rigging is being made up. If you had to take the mast down just for this, that could be a bit offputting.

The boat is number 80 in a series of 410 made. I have read that the earliest variants had a slightly softer core than the later ones. When and where in the series this changed, I am not sure of. Looking from the sides, I don’t see any immediate depression, but checking with a ruler was a good idea! Thanks.

I also added two more images of the fastening brackets on the sides. There is some small leakage coming from the steel fasteners. My first thought was that it came from the crack, but I’m not 100% sure of this. (Dont see the tumbnail of the last the images might be large in size)

 

[justanothersailboat]

At a guess, that water staining could be problems with the sealing of the mast shoe bolts and it might indicate time to check the conditions of the shoe and chainplate bolts too.

None of this is an automatic "no" but it's definitely putting the boat in the "needs immediate attention" category.

 

[benjenbav]

Needs further investigation. Hope it turns out to be trivial.

 

[Aredz]

Thanks all for the replies. I think i’ll think i pass on this one.

 

[justanothersailboat]

Fair enough. I think you were at the point where the options were "pass" or "drive a really hard bargain, then roll your sleeves up". Unpopular though that second option is around here, I do think it has something to be said for it, but it's not for everyone. Hope you find a good one.

 

[benjenbav]

Fair enough. I think you were at the point where the options were "pass" or "drive a really hard bargain, then roll your sleeves up". Unpopular though that second option is around here, I do think it has something to be said for it, but it's not for everyone. Hope you find a good one.

I very much agree that ‘driving a hard bargain and then being prepared to roll up one’s sleeves’ has a lot to be said for it if one isn’t simply looking for a turnkey purchase.

In the case in point, I also think it would be worthwhile for a prospective purchaser to have a discussion with the seller as to the problem.

It’s not really something that the seller can sidestep because any other purchaser will also be rightly concerned and will also either walk away or want a price adjustment to address what might lie beneath the visible crack or want the seller demonstrably to have dealt with it before handing over any money.

 

[justanothersailboat]

Very much agree.

To be honest, I'm not very impressed by the (apparently common?) plan among sellers of "ask an average price for the boat type and pretend there isn't a problem". It must waste a good deal of their time as well as buyers' time and money. With a valuable boat and a not too expensive fix it might be worth actually fixing it before sale, otherwise it would make more sense to be up front about it, ask for less and cut your losses. Though then I suppose you'd run the risk of being mistaken for a needs-total-overhaul project boat which is another market category altogether.

It's all a bit like the infamous "market for lemons" scenario...

 

[Concerto]

Whilst sailing round Britain in my Westerly Fulmar, I was in Lochinver and had been ashore looking around. As I got back there was a man and young boy looking intently at my boat. Chatting with him, it turned out he had recently sold a Sigma 33 and was going to be boatless for several years due to work pressures.I invited him aboard and he was struck at how my more spacious the Fulmar was compared to a Sigma, even as she was a foot shorter. Perhaps this may interest the OP.