Should I replace my Jaguar 22?

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david100952

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This is theoretical and regardless of whether I can actually afford it!
After a great deal of very helpful advise from the forum last year I bought my first "little yacht" and have to say I still love my Jaguar but I think most of us have regularly uttered these fateful words: I need a bigger boat! Three basic problems with the Jag are lack of headroom as I dont have a lift top model, you have to be Houdini to install and extract two mature adults in the V berth which is required if the heads are needed during the night and my wife cant start an outboard.
Converting to inboard has been explored but swing keel makes impractical and every solution considered thus far ends up costing fortune.
My criteria is swing keel as I moor in an estuary but definitely like the stability of lowering 5 feet of cast iron when sailing in the open, inboard engine and more than 4'5'' headroom. Oh and for it to be anything other than theoretical it has to be bought using a budget caculation of (1 x J22) + 20% = perfect boat.

All suggestions, dispersions or entertaining thoughts will be much appreciated as I am housebound by MD and starved of meaningful thought and solid food.
Regards
David
 
Just been through a similar thought process. Have a 27' boat with too little headroom - had her for 4 years and invested a lot of time and effort and not a few £££'s in making her how I (almost) want her.

I decided I could live with the 5' 8" headroom (am 6' 2") as I could not justify the additional expense to get what I needed.

To me it was (in the end) almost a calculation - if I invest an additional say £5k will I get £1k additional enjoyment over the next 5 years - answer NO!

Have you looked at the cost of an outboard with electric start? Doesn't solve the night time visits though but could help keep SWMBO happy!
 
Firstly, converting outboard to inboard is difficult and expensive. if you want an inboard engine, buy one with a boat already round it!

One solution to the unable to start problem would be to buy an electric start outboard. I had a Yamaha 9.9 on a 20 footer, with an electric start. Brilliant! And the boat could do nearly 6kts flat out too! Normal cruising was at quite low throttle setting, so it ran very quietly and wasnt thirsty.

'Too small': until you get to around 35 feet, any and every boat is 'too small'. You will always want a couple of extra feet.

Standing headroom - a definite yes please if you want to live aboard without a stiff back and neck!!
 
every boat will have its shortcomings - just like every house, you get used to the extra space very quickly. I only traded up (hurley22 to contessa 32) for the extra speed/cruising range. everything costs so much more now though
 
Not quite what you asked for, but maybe....

Hirondelle or Diamond catamarans, with electric start outboard, might be worth exploring?

Both have much more room than your Jaguar, they'll dry out happily, and the Hirondelle in particular is a fast boat.
 
I can't resist replying and hope I'm not out of order - it's an enormously long shot anyway. Our Trapper TS 240 has a (hydraulic) lift keel. Sails brilliantly. Headroom is 5ft 5 - which means you (we anyway) can stand with head bent! We've lived aboard for 3 months the last two summers and found it amazingly comfortable. For a small boat she has huge amount of dry storage and general convenience. Getting out of the forepeak is quite easy but if you're on starboard you do have to move the skipper into a sitting up position first. But it's still an outboard in a well - I can start it but I'm not very confident about doing so either. I suspect it's the same thing as a lot of women being hopeless at throwing. Take a look anyway, the more types of boat you can look at while housebound, the better, and there's loads of pictures and details. There's nothing like a bit of boat browsing to make you feel better.
 
It is a very profound question. My first reaction would be to say keep what you have got. I have had something very similar for 25 years and wouldn't change although I sometimes dream. Low headroom is not a bother as I spend most time in the cockpit or sitting in the cabin however the forepeak is never used being a bit difficult access so I seldom sleep over on the boat. My sailing style has become racing then get off. Perhaps it is sad that the boat has made me that way or is it what I prefer. That is the question which you must ask.

It seems to me that the boat you have will dictate your sailing style. So with a bigger boat you might do more cruising and sleep on board more. But on the other hand a bigger boat may not get much more use (bang for your buck) and would represent far more asset being wasted if you don't use it sufficiently.

As you seem to be committed to lift keel sit on the mud style boat you might not find too much that will be a lot bigger. Catamaran yes..
I don't think it is worth changing unless you find something that is a real and vast improvement over what you have. olewill
 
I sailed a Jag 22 on the Norfolk Broads and think they are great little boats. Being able to 'winch and sail away' after grounding also great for exploring shallows. Electric start outboard seems to cure wifee problem, leaving the stiff back and loo problem .

The lift-top adaptation must be capable of retro-fitting and the great advantage of a small boat like this is that you can fix an A frame to lower the mast when you want - something bigger boats can't generally contemplate.

Bigger boat means bigger maintenance, bills and moorings. Why not just negotiate the odd competitive charter deal on a larger boat when you'll be on board for a week or so and use your boat for fun weekends etc (the bulk of most peoples sailing) the rest of the time?
 
They've all beat me to it, but (even if changing boat) think about an electric start outboard. Honestly, the extra maintenance and seacocks open/closed kerfuffal of an inboard are just not worth it.
I've just sold a boat with a 70HP outboard and the key-in:prime-choke:turn key:off-you-go aspect is something to endear you. Compared to all this stern gland packing, shaft alignment, changing oil, seacocks snapped business you see on PBO it must be the way to go.
 
Just to take you to task on A frame lowering of masts. Size is no limit around here due to bridges to be negotiated. It is nothing to see a 70ft boat with 100ft mast lowered with A frame while underway. olewilll
 
I'm hoping to move to sail power next year, finances permitting, and I think that having read about all the kerfuffle re the points you have raised, I'll be following your advice. I have wondered about the outboard/inboard question and will go with outboard, so much less hassle. Odin, here I come!
 
"Also maybe an Anderson 22, a certain forumite on here seems to get 110% out of his boat"

I'm amazed how Graham sails with his family in Vega, I have a great amount of trouble getting into my Anderson 22's front part of the cabin, using the loo etc. Convinced it's because of the loo and the twin bulkheads, and mainly the keel casement. If I'd have had an open plan Corribee, though smaller, I'm sure much more available space.

My wide & son have never tried to stay overnight, it's just too small for us.

When money allows, I guess it will be a Sadler 26 or 29 for us!


IanC
 
hello Ian.In recent years we only do weekends on vega with all 4 of us Kids are nearly adult size now.

Berths are all big enough its sitting around space that is limited.

Not sure what boat I would want too move up to,I have a feeling that if/when we do change the boat it will be with some regrets.

I find it easy enough to get into the forecabin (5'10 15 stone),the loo is quite useable but normally bucket and chuckit anyway.Our boat has the B layout with a smaller bulkhead on the stbd side between the cabins and an extended Stbd side to the V berth,you loose the locker space but I think it is more practical.

It was easy when they were this size
dinghy2.jpg


009-2.jpg
Not quite so easy now /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Hello David its not easy stepping up from a 22 footer.There seem to be shed loads of good cheap under 22 foot boats about but less available when you move up unless money is no object.

If you limit the choice to lifting keels I can second the suggestion of a Trapper 240 .The Anderson 26 is a good boat if you can find one. Dehler 25 is a lifting keel boat that sails well.Im sure theres loads more out there.

Electric start and remote controls for the outboard would make life much easier if thats the main problem.If you really need full headroom etc then it wont be Jag 22 +20% It will be Jag22 + 500% Sorry to say /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Thanks to you all, the Trapper/Europa 240 was one that had come up when I googled lifting keel and certainly looks like if would tick most of the boxes on my wish list, but the increased investment is not insignificant. Compared to the electric start outboard, saw, jacks and a job lot of balsawood and GRP its astronomical! (Joking, honest.)
Seriously I think its going to be J22 + Selva 6HP electric start (£1000 new!) + refit/redesign cabin + TLC = happy sailing.
Thanks again
David
 
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