Ships Bells

poter

poter

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Something for you really old sea dogs -
I've been given a really nice hand made ships clock, but it dings & dongs every
half hour..... for example 0100 is 2 bells & 0400 is eight bells and then starts again around to 0800 which is also eight bells & so on. What is the rational?? is it only to do with a watch system? and what are the watch names?


poter.

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Less of the old - and hope you get a matching barometer next Xmas.

As early as the 15th Century, a bell was used to sound the time onboard a ship. (Time, in those days, was kept with an hourglass. ) The bell was rung every half hour of the 4 hour watch. A 24 hour day was divided into six 4 hour watches, except the dog watch (16:00 - 20:00 hours) which could be divided into two 2 hour watches to allow for the taking of the evening meal.

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and the names

The ship's day, unlike the land day, begins at noon, not midnight.

12.00 - 16.00 - afternoon watch (2/O)
16.00 - 18.00 - first dog watch
18.00 - 20.00 - second dog watch
20.00 - 24.00 - first watch (3/O)
00.00 - 04.00 - middle watch (2/O)
04.00 - 08.00 - morning watch (C/O)
08.00 - 12.00 - morning watch (3/O)

In a ship running the two watch system, the dog watches serve to change over the watches so the port and starboard watches alternate each night. In a ship running the three watch system, the watches traditionally taken by each deck officer are as shown. The dog watches belong to the Mate, but traditionally they get broken up, eg the Master may stand one or both if the Mate has been doing cargo in port - and if the Master feels like it! Statistically, an abnormally high proportion of accidents such as collisions and groundings occur in the middle watch, sometimes called the graveyard watch.

Clocks don't strike the dog watches - a clock could be made that would do so, but I have yet to see one.

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Re: and the names

My Old Man always referred to the two morning watches as morning and forenoon respectively? Was that an RN habit, or something from the Conway? I never did get a consistent explanation from him or any of his square rig days pals as to whu the dog watches were so named - is there a definitive explanation, or is it just because they were always called so?

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Re: qsiv

Do you imply that Conway's have odd habits - shame on you sir. On the other hand, who was your old man and what were his dates on the old ship please.

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And don't forget 16 bells at midnight tomorrow - 8 for the old and 8 for the new

Any of the old shellbacks on here stagger to their boat/yard to let the New Year into their pride and joy on the 1st or there abouts?
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Re: and the names

First and last dog watch
presume your second morning watch was a slip of the pen for the forenoon (0800-1200 hrs)

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The bells derived from the drum that beaten when the sand clocks were turned before clocks and watches were available. It was a method of keeping accurate time so that sun sights could be taken at "known" time, combined with the log that would be hauled each watch and "logged". Time, speed, distance and position.

Regards.

Peter.

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Re: and the names

Don't know if anyone knows where the "dog" comes from, but have wondered if is anything to do with Sirius, the brightest star and also the dog star, and sunset?

John

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Re: and the names

As Keen_Ed says in his reply - because they are curtailed - "dog tailed" - but there is no hard proof for this, it sounds more than probable though.

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Re: qsiv

No odd habits! But I do recall different phrases between Worcester and Conway.

He would have been there in about '30 ish - I can check the dates at home. If I recall he was born in 1915, and was 'encouraged' to leave Repton as he didnt meet their expectations, and had run away twice to Liverpool. His Father said he could leave, but if he wanted to go to sea it would be done 'properly'. My Old Man said that even by the standards of the day Conway was fairly 'basic' and he never recalled being anything other than hungry. OTOH he said the experience shaped the man he became, and he revelled in sailing on boath the Herzogin Cecile and one of the 5 posters (?Pamir?). He later helped the salvage operation on the Herzogin Cecilie when he ran a tug for a while.

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Re: qsiv -Conway

Thanks for that, before my time but interesting none the less. Conway certainly shaped a lot of men, from fairly unpromising beginnings very often.
Wasn't Herzogin Cecilie lost in Starhole Cove @Salcombe whilst if I recall, Pamir was lost having pushed a mast downwards through the keel (speculation only) but a frightening thought.



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Re: qsiv -Conway

Yes, Salcombe in about '38. He passed out of Conway in 1930 having achieved the honour of being part of the gig crew against Worcester. He then served an aprenticeship at Lallows, got his Home waters ticket on a 3 masted barque before buying a trading schooner of his own, and then motor coasters before being called up in 1940. Bearing in mind he was only 35 then and I am rather more than that now it seems he led a somewhat fuller life than I have managed.

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Worcesters, Conways and Pangbournes

I used to reckon I was pretty good at spotting who came from where (plus the occasional Hull Nautical College) on a first impressions basis.

Worcesters exude self confidence; they typically do very well when they go ashore espescially in fields which require an element of salesmanship. The downside is a certain tendency to BS in some cases, and they are sometimes NPSM.

Conways consider themselves definitely a cut above the rest, they are almost always PSM and are generally better in liner trades as well as pax. Not always as sucessful ashore. Downside is a tendency to retreat into themselves when in command, and occasional sense of humour failures.

Pangbournes seem to have suffered much more from cold showers and such nonsense. Generally PSM. Very low BS quotient, excellent junior officers, may lack self confidence in command. Tend to pursue quiet occupations, perhaps not sea related, when they go ashore.

Hull - "every finger a marline spike" and usually good at DP as well.


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Re: Worcesters, Conways and Pangbournes

Love the pen portraits! I only know two others of that ilk (both Worcester) and they seem to fit your descriptions.

My Old Man certainly fitted the seaman aspect. He was an intensely demanding skipper, not suffering fools gladly, but could also be patient in his explanations. His crews (both Home Trade, RNR and RORC racing) would have died for him, so despite his inner shyness he must have been capable of being a team leader, if not always a team player. It seemed bizarre, that after he died and the Western Morning News ran a piece, my mother got letters flooding in from people as far afield as Cape Wrath in the North and Tasmania in the south. Always sad to learn more about a person when they die than you kknew in their lifetime.

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Re: Worcesters, Conways and Pangbournes

I take it the Tow Master taking the old Conway through the Menai Straits was ex Worcester!!
I was informed all about DP by a young barmaid in Hull - most of it did not have anything to do with a MMI - the desk as you gents call it.

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