Halo
Well-Known Member
I heared they were trying to float the grounded ship off today - cannot see ayhting in news - has anyone got the latest ?
Ship Stuck on Farnes
- Thread starter Halo
- Start date
sailorman
Well-Known Member
NickRobinson
Well-Known Member
HW 19.05, five days after springs.....
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basil421
Well-Known Member
Looks like she's grounded with a reasonable degree of support.
http://www.berwickshirenews.co.uk/n...weather-hampers-ship-rescue-efforts-1-2841199
http://www.berwickshirenews.co.uk/n...weather-hampers-ship-rescue-efforts-1-2841199
Sandyman
Well-Known Member
Just after she went aground I saw the AIS track. MAIB report should make for interesting reading.
onesea
Well-Known Member
Probably be blamed on some one falling asleep, maybe drunk you can probably add some amamosity between the crew to the measure. I suppose it could be mechanical breakdown? Then there are only 6 onboard, people who probably would not talk to each other if they where not stuck on a ship together.
I wonder what contracts they do what wages they are paid and what rest they get in that period....
But it will still be the Captains/ Crews fault.
smeaks
Well-Known Member
It is there fault! They put it there... The master has responsibilities they are professional seamen and will need to communicate efficiently. If you can't get on with people you don't do that job! The master should select a course appropriate to the weather and conditions. Mechanical failure would prompt an emergency call well before they got into danger. They ended up on an island between the two light houses so you have to question if anyone was paying attention to the course...Zzzzz horlicks induced bump?
Halo
Well-Known Member
AMAZING VIDEO CLIP AT
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-21826560
She is on a very flat rock table. #
To be honest it is hard to see how a competant crew would put her there.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-21826560
She is on a very flat rock table. #
To be honest it is hard to see how a competant crew would put her there.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
I have to wonder if there isn't a common cause with a case a few years ago where the second mate was alone on watch with a bottle of whisky to keep him company. After a while he got bored, so he turned off the bridge alarm and took his bottle to bed with him. The first thing anyone else on board knew was when the ship steamed full ahead up Dungeness beach.
onesea
Well-Known Member
Let me ask you a question, how many people do you need to sail your boat 24/7 365 days a year? During the hours of darkness you will need 2 people on watch all the time. You will need to conduct regular fire and engine rounds thought the day and night on top of this... When in port you will need to man your gangway 24/7 and have at least one person available to answer questions RE cargo customs etc.
You will need to go to the shops in port to take food onboard (or pay 3 times as much from a chandler who will deliver old food etc), you will need to cook and do your washing onboard. Whilst also maintaining certificates for all equipment onboard, doing monthly maintenance on all safety equipment, paper chart and publication corrections for the whole of the North Sea and adjacent coasts. chasing for surveys etc. Before every departure there will be 4 pages of A4 checklist to be completed as well as JSA's and Toolbox talks.
On departure you will need 2 people forward 2 people aft one on the bridge and one in engine room. Your sailing time is not fixed and instructions can change at any time.
Not to mention port state inspections which require 2 men away form routine duties/ rest inport...
So how many people do you need?
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BrianH
Well-Known Member
Many years ago when I sailed out of Whitby, a bit further south than the Farnes, a freighter ran ashore on the sandy beach west of the harbour between it and the village of Sandsend. It drove fair and square up the beach far inshore of the normal course it should have taken south from the Tees. It took a long time to wait for a spring tide to haul her off after a channel had been dug during a succession of low tides. The later inquiry report blamed the captain and his two deck officers of all being drunk.
We had a rule of thumb at the time when sailing in those waters - southbound vessels should be considered as possibly not under proper command while northbound ones were a better prospect ... the distance from any large port was enough for the crew to have sobered up.
We had a rule of thumb at the time when sailing in those waters - southbound vessels should be considered as possibly not under proper command while northbound ones were a better prospect ... the distance from any large port was enough for the crew to have sobered up.
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Halo
Well-Known Member
So how many people do you need?[/QUOTE]
I expect the answer is large and sailors are overworked BUT whatever else is happening it is hard to see an excuse for not having one of the six people looking where the ship is sailing. If there was soemone on the bridge how did she end up where she did??
I expect the answer is large and sailors are overworked BUT whatever else is happening it is hard to see an excuse for not having one of the six people looking where the ship is sailing. If there was soemone on the bridge how did she end up where she did??
onesea
Well-Known Member
Let me guess at the watch configuration onboard her..
You need 2 men on watch at any one time, so:
OOW & AB working 6 hours on 6 hours off (this is just legal).
Captain Day work? Night work? Pilot-age? Paper Work? Ordering stores food and others, bunkers, Fresh Water, keeping on top of certificates, planned maintenance deficiencies from last audit/ inspection, the list goes on...
Other Person? Engineer? Cook? AB Maintenance, cargo planning? Stability?
Ok so you join this ship on your contract of 6 months as master, you realize the ship is under manned for the work she is doing. You ask the owners/ managers for more crew they say no. Next Port inspection you mention the problems, they are understanding but point out that you have the minimum manning required by flag state (this states ONLY the bare minimum required for the ship to put to sea and berth safely not for cargo work or maintenance).
You are lucky you can go back to work for the last company they phone you to join another ship.
You ask for a relief the owners/ managers/ crew agency say you have to pay all costs for your return flights. Each adding there cut to costs of doing this, this amounts to more than your wages for the whole contract. What do you do?
Probably get on with it, coffee, smoke and drink are your only pleasures in life...
I am not saying it should happen and in my first post I said they where probably asleep and may of had a drink.
If you are going to change the situation yes you do need to look at the culture onboard the ship. Although changes here can only come from management and regulations.
Halo
Well-Known Member
Whenever yachties protest that ships are dangerously out of control at sea with no one looking where they are going there seems to be a reaction from professional sailors that this is inaccuarte - there are always at least two people actively in control , we are professionals blah blah blah .
Your post seems to be confirming that, because of undermanning it is not feasible for some captains at sea to run a safe ship. I have no reason to doubt you, and if this is the case then you are right - the only answer is regulation and enforcement. Greedy owners and slack insurers need to be held to account, given exemplary damages and prosecuted.
You clearly have expertise in commercial shipping. Who owns the Danio? who insures it? Are they irresponsible crooks ? How can we shame them if the Danio's fuel tanks burst and foul the beautiful Farnes??
Your post seems to be confirming that, because of undermanning it is not feasible for some captains at sea to run a safe ship. I have no reason to doubt you, and if this is the case then you are right - the only answer is regulation and enforcement. Greedy owners and slack insurers need to be held to account, given exemplary damages and prosecuted.
You clearly have expertise in commercial shipping. Who owns the Danio? who insures it? Are they irresponsible crooks ? How can we shame them if the Danio's fuel tanks burst and foul the beautiful Farnes??
bigwow
Well-Known Member
Why is there no sign of the crew scrubbing off in the photo?
onesea
Well-Known Member
There are many types of ships and shipping companies, the one thing they have in common is they are all in a competitive market place. To do this they are constantly looking to make cost savings.
This has not changed since shipping began. There are better shipping companies and worse, for centuries there have been improvements to the industry. There have also been shipping companies trying to duck out of them...
The Oil industry has made large leaps in this but it all comes at a cost and someone has to pay...
As for ships steaming round with unmanned, bridges. I hope its not the norm but when I am sailing if I see a ship there is always the thought "has he seen me"...
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NormanS
Well-Known Member
I'm sure it would help if every auto-pilot system, yes even for yachts, had a mandatory watch alarm, which couldn't be disconnected. The kind of thing where there is a warning (light?), every couple of minutes, which has to be cancelled. If the warning is not cancelled, all hell breaks out, alerting others.
Caer Urfa
Well-Known Member
The tug Hemiksem which has been sheltering from a 6m swell here on the Tyne for the last few days has left this morning for the Farnes so we may see some action very soon.
However 'if'/ 'when they get the Danio off what will be more interesting is what they will do with her, as she has a bloody great hole in her Starboard bow near the keel so a drydock must be on the hit list, problem is where? the nearest is in the Tyne but we have a large offshore vessel sitting in it, other possibilities maybe be Sunderland or Leith.
Mike
UPDATE
The Hemiksen has just entered the Firth of Forth probably going back to Rosyth, however we have a larger tug due now in the Tyne on Saturday the Lomax which has a bigger bollard pull of 80 tons which to me is more suitable for the job!
Sunderland is now probably out as a possible dock as the Thames Fisher has broken down off Flambrough Head and the Tees Tug Ormesby Cross is going to take her to Sunderland drydock!
Mike
However 'if'/ 'when they get the Danio off what will be more interesting is what they will do with her, as she has a bloody great hole in her Starboard bow near the keel so a drydock must be on the hit list, problem is where? the nearest is in the Tyne but we have a large offshore vessel sitting in it, other possibilities maybe be Sunderland or Leith.
Mike
UPDATE
The Hemiksen has just entered the Firth of Forth probably going back to Rosyth, however we have a larger tug due now in the Tyne on Saturday the Lomax which has a bigger bollard pull of 80 tons which to me is more suitable for the job!
Sunderland is now probably out as a possible dock as the Thames Fisher has broken down off Flambrough Head and the Tees Tug Ormesby Cross is going to take her to Sunderland drydock!
Mike
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Crabber24
Active Member
I have only seen the video mentioned in post no. 8, but might the "hole" you mention be a bow thruster housing?
nigel1
Well-Known Member
Might be a bit generous with the crew size. According to PSC data base, she has a crew of 5, I guess that's Master, Mate, Engineer, and 2 AB,s whoever draws the short straw is cook.
At sea, Master and Mate will work 6 on 6 off watches. Legally, at night, there should be an AB on the bridge as well, but they need the AB's to carry out maintenance, so more than likely, AB's are on day work.
In port, the mate will be on chinese watches, stay on and stop on until the cargo is finished. He'll also need to be about for berthing and unberthing.
Master and mate will need to be about for the numerous inspections and audits, be it statutory, Port State, or suitability audit/survey with regard to potential charters, then there will be all the paper work and other carp required (but not needed) by the owners and operators.'
The ship is German owned, but registered in Antigua, for those in the shipping trade, that tells a lot about the owners.
Crew will most likely be from Eastern Europe and or the Far East. You don't need a high grade watch keeping certificate to work a ship like this. Owner/Operator will most likely be offering minimum wages and minimum conditions, with maximum length of contract. This type of operation does not attract the most dedicated and professional mariner.
They will also be subject to the Hours of Rest Regulations, in effect, guaranteeing them all 10 hrs rest per day. The operator will have made clear to them all that the hours of rest records will religiously reflect this. Its unfortunate that a lot of auditors and surveyors do not investigate this more rigorously when they inspect these ships.
For years, there have been campaigns by maritime unions to put a stop to this type of operation, but Governments do not want to interfere in private enterprise, and adding more crew will put up running costs, and will put the good operator at a disadvantage.
As has been said, its up to Class and insurance companies to put the pressure on to put a stop to it.
I'm not saying that this exonerates the crew in this case (and I'll be p#ssed off if it turns out that alcohol was involved - dont think the crew were tested though), but it might help to explain why this happens again and again, and will happen in the future.
Me, I'm pretty lucky, 5 weeks on / off contract, and a total crew of 14 on an anchor handling tug, including a Chief Mate, two Second Mates, and a Third Mate, so not all ship owners are bad.
