Ship information

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I thought I would write to the forum with a plea for help. I am trying to find some information regarding WWII shipping. My Grandfather was in the Merchant Navy and served mainly on three ships during his service. All three sunk, they got him on his last one in 1943!

The Empress Of Britain
Empire Magpie
and finally the Empire Lake which he unfortunately died when she was torpedoed off Madagascar.

I am trying to find any information on his last ship the Empire Lake. I have found that she was sunk by U181 commanded by Kapitän z. See Wolfgang Lüth (quite a nasty nazi apparently). I have also found a convoy list from early 1943 just before the Empire Lake left Gibraltar on passage to ? but this was much earlier than 15th July when she went down.

I am looking for anything really, especially a photograph if one exists. I know there a few shipping people on here and more that have an interest in shipping. Can anyone help with any information. Where might be a good place to look. I think I have exhausted the internet research now, unless anyone has any good bookmarked sites which might help.

Thank you in advance for any information or pictures that might come my way. As it is, I do not even know what type of ship she was.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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[plombier]

Might be worth posting the question on the Chartroom Chat forum.

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[Talbot]

Presume you have already checked with the Imperial War Museum?

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[Capt_Marlinspike]

Jools
I suspect that there is generally more information about warships than merchant ships. So perhaps if you knew which RN vessels were part of the convoy you could research them to see if they have any cross references to the merchie you are interested in. Good luck with the searching.

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[Bejasus]

Found this one but ship not lost. Possibly she was making a similar run to Capetown or perhaps on a return journey.
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mhold.eclipse.co.uk/oskms/os047.htm>Convoy site</A>

Empire Lake, Collier. MOWT
15.7.43 Torpedoed and sunk by U.181 on Admiralty service at 21.27S 51.47E

The Empire Ships (second edition) by W.H.Mitchell & L.A.Sawyer.


All I could find at this time, but all info you probably have.
First one is an interesting site.

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[ubuysa]

I've sent you a PM.

Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I found that convoy site. Could that have actually been her last port of call before she was sunk. May 17 1943 to 15 July 1943 ..... 59 days, I don't know seems a long time to me. But also these ships were a lot slower and would run at the slowest ship in the convoy speed, maybe it was. Would she have gone through Suez at that time of the war?

No I have not checked the Imperial War Museum, I will have a look at that.

The convoy list that arrived in Gib, would it be expected that all vessels listed to go on to Cape Town would have left together. The information I have which my late father had sourced was from the World Ship society.

I can't believe that there are no photographs or even drawings available.

Tony, thanks for the contact, I will write to him later today.

The book mentioned earlier The Empire Ships (2nd ed) do you have it, if so was she listed.

And do people drop into chartroom chat, maybe I should ask Kim to move this for me. Thank you everyone for advice and info so far.



<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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[Rowana]

Julian,

Have a look here -
http://www.seawaves.com/newsletters/TDIH/july/15Jul.txt
http://www.ubootwaffe.net/ops/boat.cgi?boat=181

You may have found these already, so apologies if I'm giving you stuff you already know.

Interestingly, I had an uncle who was also on DEMS, and was torpedoed twice in the north atlantic convoys. Luckily, he survived the war, and died in 2000 just a week short of his 93rd birthday. Whwn I was a child, I had a train set he had brought back from the states for his own son which was then passed to me. Wish I still had it, must be worh a bob or two now!




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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Thank you for these Jim, I only had the last site you listed. I have gleaned some fabulous information, right down to the time recorded in the log book of U181 of the sinking.

I have also just discovered, previously unknown, there were 7 survivors who paddled and sailed liferafts to safety of Madagascar 180 miles away in 18 days.

I would love to know if any are still alive. I am still searching for a photograph of the ship.

So, once again thank you for that Jim, I owe you one.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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