Ship building boomng in France.

[Sybarite]

After a worrying period with n new orders being passed for two years, things are now booming for STX at St Nazaire.

Msc Croisières has contracted for two cruise ships (1035’ Capacity 7400 persons) with an option for two more. Total for 4 = €3 billion. Their present fleet of 12 ships were all built by STX.

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/econ...aquebots-pour-msc-croisieres.html?xtor=RSS-27

In January, Brittany Ferries ordered an LNG powered ferry €240m

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/soci...y-ecologique-geant-pour-brittany-ferries.html

SNCM (in the Med) has approved the order of 4 ferries.

Royal Caribbean Cruises has the largest cruise ship in the world under construction at STX (€1 billion) and an option for a second; the due date is approaching.

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/soci...truction-du-plus-grand-paquebot-du-monde.html

The State has a one third interest in STX.

 

[halcyon]

After a worrying period with n new orders being passed for two years, things are now booming for STX at St Nazaire.

Msc Croisières has contracted for two cruise ships (1035’ Capacity 7400 persons) with an option for two more. Total for 4 = €3 billion. Their present fleet of 12 ships were all built by STX.

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/econ...aquebots-pour-msc-croisieres.html?xtor=RSS-27

In January, Brittany Ferries ordered an LNG powered ferry €240m

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/soci...y-ecologique-geant-pour-brittany-ferries.html

SNCM (in the Med) has approved the order of 4 ferries.

Royal Caribbean Cruises has the largest cruise ship in the world under construction at STX (€1 billion) and an option for a second; the due date is approaching.

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/soci...truction-du-plus-grand-paquebot-du-monde.html

The State has a one third interest in STX.

And they keep saying it's not possible to compete with the Far East, just the lazy attitude in the UK now.

Brian

 

[rhumlady]

No Brian its more to do with most of the remaining yards being owned by BAE and as far as they are concerned if you can't kill someone with it then they don't make it.That goes for land and aircraft as well.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

No Brian its more to do with most of the remaining yards being owned by BAE and as far as they are concerned if you can't kill someone with it then they don't make it.That goes for land and aircraft as well.

Well, remember the Condor HSC incident near Chausey- maybe they should think outside the box, and build galleys with rams again.

 

[halcyon]

No Brian its more to do with most of the remaining yards being owned by BAE and as far as they are concerned if you can't kill someone with it then they don't make it.That goes for land and aircraft as well.

The same lot that gave our motor industry to their prime competitor the Germans for £800,000.

Brian

 

[Dill et Bound]

Well, remember the Condor HSC incident near Chausey- maybe they should think outside the box, and build galleys with rams again.

I think that Condor was built in Australia, registered in Nassau and crewed by Frenchmen, who should have known better..

 

[Sybarite]

And they keep saying it's not possible to compete with the Far East, just the lazy attitude in the UK now.

Brian

They wouldn't accept the contract until they had a signed competition agreement with the unions who were asked to forego certain advantages. OTOH workers have security of employment for the foreseeable future. The two MSC boats alone will take 2,000,000 man days of work.

 

[halcyon]

They wouldn't accept the contract until they had a signed competition agreement with the unions who were asked to forego certain advantages. OTOH workers have security of employment for the foreseeable future. The two MSC boats alone will take 2,000,000 man days of work.

The same as in the 70's it used to be said the German unions priority was maximizing jobs for members, UK union priority was maximizing wages and political agenda at the expense of jobs.

To-day in general the UK, or is it England ?, can always find a reason why we should not / cannot do anything, all the threads on the forum will explain why it is better to buy in than make, be it high value or low products.

Brian

 

[KristiferColumbus]

In the 70's it was well known that the German skilled workers were more highly regarded & better paid so maybe the Unions had a point.
Maggie could'nt wait to put the knife in British Industry while the French have backed their's so the present circumstances ar'nt so surprising.
If they were to back us now it would be by importing more foreign workers.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Sybarite,

Do you have any influence to persuade the French yards to build good-looking cruise ships, as opposed to the usual horrors?

 

[Sybarite]

Sybarite,

Do you have any influence to persuade the French yards to build good-looking cruise ships, as opposed to the usual horrors?

Well, they did ask my advice and I said that, as a company, they had a duty to maximize their profits on behalf of their shareholders and that meant stacking up the decks and shallow draft to widen the cruise areas. And when you are inside the boat looking out you don't worry about this sort of thing.

Although they were forced to agree, the skipper wasn't all that happy; the row away factor just didn't work for him.

Still, they wouldn't go for a gyroscopically balanced tower block.

 

[rgarside]

The State has a one third interest in STX.

The French state has a holding in STX France, part of STX Europe. STX Europe also has shipyards in Norway, Finland, Romania and some other places like Brazil and Vietnam. STX Europe is part of the STX group and is controlled by a Korean enterprise which has large shipyards in Korea.

 

[Danbury]

In the 70's it was well known that the German skilled workers were more highly regarded & better paid so maybe the Unions had a point.
Maggie could'nt wait to put the knife in British Industry while the French have backed their's so the present circumstances ar'nt so surprising.
If they were to back us now it would be by importing more foreign workers.

I think you'll find that it was the unions that bu&&ered up British industry... the 70s were famous for strike after strike after strike... no wonder the world went elsewhere for their goods !! They managed to price us out of most markets... utterly digraceful !

 

[Sybarite]

I think you'll find that it was the unions that bu&&ered up British industry... the 70s were famous for strike after strike after strike... no wonder the world went elsewhere for their goods !! They managed to price us out of most markets... utterly digraceful !

The boss of Harland & Wolff Belfast used to say that if he coud count on two days work per week per person, they would beat the world.

 

[Sharkx]

I think you'll find that it was the unions that bu&&ered up British industry... the 70s were famous for strike after strike after strike... no wonder the world went elsewhere for their goods !! They managed to price us out of most markets... utterly digraceful !

Correct. My father and grandfather worked on shipyards on the Clyde. The reasons I have heard to why they went on strike are quite disgraceful. So the work went elsewhere. I have taken a negative attitude towards people who strike ever since.

There is only one yard on the clyde producing civilian ships (Fergusons Port Glasgow). They used to make offshore supply vessels and small ferries, but I've not seen anything on their slipway for over a year.

 

[KristiferColumbus]

Why were the German & French Governments (+ there are probably one or two others besides) able to stand up to their unions & get their workers onboard while ours could not?
You have to ask yourselves that & is'nt it a bad workman that blames his tools? The Government were the ones in ultimate control were they not so why is it that the
French & the German Governments have managed to succeed while ours has clearly failed manifestly.
Ours under Margret Thatcher put all our resources into banking.Did'nt that go well!I suspect that it had still got something to do with the class system & the arrogance of those in control
but it would be nice to be able to look at this from a French or a German perspective both more egalitarian societies?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Just to pick a couple of contrapoints out of the air, Germany had/still has worker-directors, something that was an anathema to the Brits: and despite French government support (or maybe because of it?), the French economy is close to titzup.

If you want to blame anyone for the British decline, blame managers and directors rather than government or unions. I worked for one or two big name UK companies back then, and generally speaking, senior management was dire.

 

[richardbayle]

Just to pick a couple of contrapoints out of the air, Germany had/still has worker-directors, something that was an anathema to the Brits: and despite French government support (or maybe because of it?), the French economy is close to titzup.

If you want to blame anyone for the British decline, blame managers and directors rather than government or unions. I worked for one or two big name UK companies back then, and generally speaking, senior management was dire.

Absolutely correct. I have run a business in France now for 15 years and to say the French understand employee relations is to completely misunderstand. French industry is on it's knees at the moment and given the constant tax increases on business despite successive presidents saying they are going to change things, it only gets worse. SME's are really struggling, Peugot are in trouble as are several other large firms. Airbus are supported by their military wing and the Arabs buying new big planes, oh and that company isn't French!

I am now having to consider closing the business as I do not believe my customers are going to pay the increase in charges that this year's new employers taxes will force.So that will be 12 people on the extremely generous dole, except me. As the Gérant I do not qualify for unemployment benefit because I am a rich, boat owning running dog of a capitalist.

As Sarkozy said; I paraphrase, "France is the last communist country left".

 

[Grumpybear]

Why were the German & French Governments (+ there are probably one or two others besides) able to stand up to their unions & get their workers onboard while ours could not?
You have to ask yourselves that & is'nt it a bad workman that blames his tools? The Government were the ones in ultimate control were they not so why is it that the
French & the German Governments have managed to succeed while ours has clearly failed manifestly.
Ours under Margret Thatcher put all our resources into banking.Did'nt that go well!I suspect that it had still got something to do with the class system & the arrogance of those in control
but it would be nice to be able to look at this from a French or a German perspective both more egalitarian societies?

From memory, all governments in the 70s were entirely at the mercy of the unions. The Left hate Mrs T precisely because she stood up to the unions. When our engineering and mining industries had finally disintegrated under the weight of their own incompetence, greed and Luddism, banking may have been the only one left......

 

[ANDY123]

banking may have been the only one left......[/QUOTE]

.....And look what they did!!!!!!