Sheared Ball valve

[splashman237]

Ok Im guessing this isnt the first time .... but it is for me .... searched the Threads nothing obvious in titles.

Story ... The surveyor who surveyed the yacht Jeanneau 32i) snapped the handle of the Waste seacock on the skin fitting (1.5 in ball valve ) . agent asked to free or replace - said it was done - now it in the water turns out it wasnt replaced ...

Question - with the shaft sheared does the 'nut' on the valve turn the ball or is there another way to turn it ? ie can you drill and tap the shaft as a make do (till next season) without a haul out and replace.

With it sheared how can you tell if its open or closed ( dont want to overpressurise the holding tank and have an explosion :0(( - im pretty sure its closed as it was a Windermere boat (now on the sea).

 

[duncan99210]

Is it just the handle that is sheared off or is it the shaft from the handle to the vavle mechanism? If it's just the handle, then they are available as replacements and its an easy job to remove the old one and replace it. If the shaft is sheared, then it's going to be easier to replace the valve itself. However, that will probably mean lifting the boat. If the valve was meant to have been replaced as a condition of the sale, then the costs should fall to the who ever failed to carry out the work before completing the sale?

As to telling if the valve is open or closed, then if the handle was at vertical to the hull when it failed, the valve is open, if at 90 degrees, its closed (normally!). The only way to confirm that is to try and gently pump out the tank; if you get a nice brown stain in the water and no resistance, the valve is open; no brown stain and resistance to pumping, it's either closed or there's a blockage in the pipe......

 

[rotrax]

Ok Im guessing this isnt the first time .... but it is for me .... searched the Threads nothing obvious in titles.

Story ... The surveyor who surveyed the yacht Jeanneau 32i) snapped the handle of the Waste seacock on the skin fitting (1.5 in ball valve ) . agent asked to free or replace - said it was done - now it in the water turns out it wasnt replaced ...

Question - with the shaft sheared does the 'nut' on the valve turn the ball or is there another way to turn it ? ie can you drill and tap the shaft as a make do (till next season) without a haul out and replace.

With it sheared how can you tell if its open or closed ( dont want to overpressurise the holding tank and have an explosion :0(( - im pretty sure its closed as it was a Windermere boat (now on the sea).

Hi, Had this problem with a Hunter once-nasty job as the loo had been used several times. The guilty party had turned the handle to open but the shaft had sheared and thus did not open the valve. If, as I suspect the Jeanneau has a skin fitting onto which the valve screws, it should be possible to change it in the water. If you remove the old one and quickley screw the new one on the skin fitting-with the valve open-once it is on a few threads you can close it and stop the ingress of water. If you try with it closed the inrush of water makes it tricky to start the first thread. What I would do is make it clear to the Seller/ Broker or whoever that you hold them responsible and expect them to pick up the tab otherwise you will arrange a visit to the Small Claims Court. Good Luck.

 

[nigel1]

My guess that the discharge from the valve is very close to the waterline.
In theory, you should be able to plug the discharge from the outside.
Providing access to the valve is reasonable, and you can get a couple large spanners/pipe wrenches on to the valve, it should be possible to unscrew the valve from the through hull fitting. Bear in mind access is important, you want to be able to unscrew the valve without putting undue sideways force onto the through hull.
Best of luck
Edit
On my Bene, I have removed the waste hose from the valve, and then opened the valve to clear a blockage, and no water has entered the boat, so if yours is similar, it should be very close to water line.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Hi, Had this problem with a Hunter once-nasty job as the loo had been used several times. The guilty party had turned the handle to open but the shaft had sheared and thus did not open the valve. If, as I suspect the Jeanneau has a skin fitting onto which the valve screws, it should be possible to change it in the water. If you remove the old one and quickley screw the new one on the skin fitting-with the valve open-once it is on a few threads you can close it and stop the ingress of water. If you try with it closed the inrush of water makes it tricky to start the first thread. What I would do is make it clear to the Seller/ Broker or whoever that you hold them responsible and expect them to pick up the tab otherwise you will arrange a visit to the Small Claims Court. Good Luck.

+1

Did precisely that a couple of months ago with the main intake valve of the engine cooling water - not as nasty as a waste outlet but the principle is the same. What I would add is to have a plug ready to jam into the skin fitting to stem the inflow. This gives you the chance to clean the threads and to wrap some PTFE tape before removing the plug and threading the open replacement valve. Less than a tumblerful of water entered and we could not plug from the outside because there is a grill. Always make sure that you are not alone while changing the valve and have someone standing by near the bilge pump switch just in case... Good luck; it sounds worse than it really is.

 

[Colvic Watson]

STOP!

It's not your problem. Agent, broker or whoever promised to replace and has not done so. The damaged seacock puts your insurance at risk since you have an unrectified known defect from the survey. You can't close the seacock and it hasn't been rectified, call the agent, say that if they haven't put in place a replacement within 7 days you will sue for breach of contract. It's not your responsibility to put this right, and however easy some make it sound - changing part of a seacock fitting in the water is no picnic - who will you claim from if it all goes wrong?

 

[markdj]

I think the agent will be picking up the tab to haul out and change...

 

[splashman237]

Yes its the shaft thats sheared so guessing a haul out is on the cards, too icy here in North to haul out this week so far, will be on to the Jeanneau agent who said they had freed of the valves... how could they do that if the handle is not there ?

So the nut on the valve is just part of valve seal on the shaft it doesn't turn when the handle turns ?

 

[rob2]

I would be inclined to get it done quickly, for peace of mind. That might mean doing it yourself. You can find out whether the valve is basically open or closed by uncoupling the hose from the heads and rodding down it to see if you get through (a flexible rod like a curtain wire will do).

As to changing the valve, this would be the sensible option and the receipt can be presented to the guilty party for payment. Dry the boat out alongside or against piles, unwind the old and wind on the new.

Rob.

 

[Sans Bateau]

I'm afraid I would asking the question, why has it failed? If one has failed, is it because of dezincification? Yes I agree the broker should fix it, presumably passing on the cost to the previous owner. However, for peace of mind, its your boat now, get it lifted and change every skin fitting and seacock with new DZR ones. Its not a cost you want after just buying the boat, but to find it sunk on its mooring would be even more distressing.

 

[maby]

....
If, as I suspect the Jeanneau has a skin fitting onto which the valve screws, it should be possible to change it in the water. If you remove the old one and quickley screw the new one on the skin fitting-with the valve open-once it is on a few threads you can close it and stop the ingress of water. If you try with it closed the inrush of water makes it tricky to start the first thread.
....

If you try this and it goes wrong, I would hate to be you trying to explain it to your insurers!

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

If you try this and it goes wrong, I would hate to be you trying to explain it to your insurers!

That's how boat yards make money.

Both my echo sounder and my speedo involve the removal of a cap and the insertion on the instrument head, all done while the boat is afloat. Pretty straightforward once you know what you're doing.

 

[maby]

That's how boat yards make money.

Both my echo sounder and my speedo involve the removal of a cap and the insertion on the instrument head, all done while the boat is afloat. Pretty straightforward once you know what you're doing.

Hmmm, there is a bit of a difference between changing a ball valve and removing an echo sounder - the latter is designed to be easy to remove with the boat in the water and usually fitted with a flap valve to limit the water ingres. I maintain that it would be a difficult conversation to have with your insurance company:

"Hello, Acme Marine Insurance, how can I help you?"
"Hello, my yacht has sunk and I would like you to pay to have it salvaged."
"I'm sorry to hear that sir. Can I just take a few details? How did it sink?"
"Well, I put a spanner on one of the skin fittings and removed it, hoping to be able to screw the replacement on quickly enough, but I slipped and it slid down the bilge."
{sounds of choked laughter followed by a click and dial tone}

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

the latter is designed to be easy to remove with the boat in the water and usually fitted with a flap valve to limit the water ingres.

Mine have no flap. The bore is roughly 30mm and they are around 60 cms below sea level - as is the cooling water inlet valve that I changed. What your hypothetical scenario omits is the plug - that ought to be fastened near every skin fitting - that I mentioned in my original comment to Rotrax. I also mentioned the need not to be alone. At the end of the day you are quite sensible in not biting off more than you can chew...

 

[splashman237]

No signs of pinking colour of the valve , will have good look when its out ... Boat only 4 yrs old and has been in fresh water previously . I think it was just lack of use but surprised its so easy to shear the main shaft , you'd have thought it would have been 'reasonably' sized to the maximum load a human could apply to the handle ...ah well good old British engineering gone to the dogs in China ....

Is fresh water easier or worse on de zincification any one know ?

Im not going to take chance replace with DZR including skin fitting and hose connector I think .