She and I and radio licences ??

[CharlesM]

Hello all

If she and I go cruising what is required regarding operators licences?

I have one, and the boat will too. Does she require an operators licence?

Thanks
Charles

 

[Talbot]

If she will be operating boat on her own and wants to be able to use the raduio as well, then the answer is yes. If you will be there, I believe the rules allow her to use the radio under your supervision without a licence!

 

[CharlesM]

Thanks Talbot.

Anyone know the cheapest way to obtain an operators licence?

the course I did was quite naf for the money...

Cheers
Charles

 

[Talbot]

Local adult education is about the cheapest.

 

[CharlesM]

Hi Talbot

Any pointers or web referances?

Thanks

 

[Mike_Martin]

Re: She and I and radio licences (re Talbot)

Correct! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mike

 

[Mike_Martin]

http://www.rya.org.uk

 

[Talbot]

as Mike has said, if you go through the RYA web site it will providde a link to all the places doing the course you want, it is then just a case of finding the correct one local to you, alternatively give your local adult education places a call and see what they have.

 

[fastjedi]

If you have a standard VHF radio .... anyone can operate the radio providing one person onboard has an operators licence /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you have DSC VHF radio ..... the operator must have a licence /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Mike_Martin]

Re: Fastjedi

Ooops! The rules are exactly the same for non-DSC and DSC, in fact for ALL Maritime radio equipment. I'll quote from the radio regs:

Article 47, Operator's Certificates states:
47.2 2) The service of every ship radiotelephone station, ship earth station and ship station using the frequencies and techniques prescribed in Chapter VII shall be controlled by an operator holding a certificate issued or recognized by the government to which the station is subject. Provided the station is so controlled, other persons besides the holder of the certificate may use the equipment.

This means that the holder can personally supervise someone else using the equipment however merely being on-board is not sufficient to "control" a radio station.

I hope this clarifies things.
Mike

 

[Sea Devil]

If you are cruising outside uk waters then frankly all you need is to do is to licence the radio (VHF or SSB) You do need a call sign - You should be able to operate a VHF or SSB but if you can handle a mobile phone then you will find it easy.

Once you are in the Med, Carribbean or Pacific nobody in the world is going to ask for your operators licence. In theory they can but the reality is OFCOM is impotent outside UK waters. There are international reciprocal agreements to enforce regulations but for example the Americans consider it a safety issue and have a positive policy of not enforcing the operators licence as they want people to have suitible radios for obvious reasons. Most European countries feel the same and are not interested in 'foreign' boats.

There will be an explosion of people quoting the 'rules' but it is all nonsense and not worth bothering with. I am afraid the UK regulators are somewhat self interested - lovely people but out of touch with reality! I right this more in sadness than anger as it is so sad to see authority impose rules and regs they cannot police and are illogical in this day and age.

 

[Mike_Martin]

As Michael understands, part of my job is to ensure that people understand what laws they are breaking! When, as in this case, they are not actually UK laws (and that they apply everywhere), it is in everyone's interest to know that.

It is not in my job to either judge or guess how other Administrations implement or enforce those laws. Especially as to do so (and be wrong) would leave me open to claims that I am misrepresenting the facts to UK licensees (an issue that Michael doesn't need to worry about) and leaving them open to prosecution. A situation that I would not be comfortable with personally.

Nuff said /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mike

 

[CharlesM]

Mike

Is it not possible to do self study for the short range certificate, and then to do the exam somewhere... thus only paying for the examination and study materials?

Thing is my girlfriend is tight enough as far as cash goes, and as I am buying the boat and will have loads else to pay for it would be preferable not to have to pay another 75 quid for a course such as this.

Thanks
Charles

 

[Sea Devil]

Michael hi,

What a very polite and sensible reply - you make me feel awful - always believed you have to say what you think but I respect good manners and common sense. Hope to be in the UK shortly again and will buy you a beer

regards

Michael

 

[Mike_Martin]

Charles,

Yes it is possible but you will still have to arrange it with the examiner/Instructor to just come in for the exam at the end of someone else's course.

Mike

 

[Mike_Martin]

Michael,

I rarely take (or indeed try to give) offence to what people write, so don't worry.

However, that doesn't get you out of the beer!! Rubs hands and smacks chops at the thought

Mike

 

[CharlesM]

Great

Thanks for that Mike.

I guess I just need to find someone who will be prepared to allow her to sit the exam with them. I anticipate this will be difficult as they will of course try squeeze us for course money!

But nice to hear that is acceptable to OFCOM. (I assume you are talking with an official voice or should I not?)

Cheers
Charles

 

[Mike_Martin]

You should, in fact, assume that I am talking in a personal capacity as one who knows /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mike

 

[Solitaire]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes it is possible but you will still have to arrange it with the examiner/Instructor to just come in for the exam at the end of someone else's course.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you are right Mike, but there are other issues here.

The SRC course as set down is effectively in two sections - the issue of a Short Range Certificate through either a full course - which is a minimum of 8 hours or the issue of a conversion certificate which can only be issued providing an existing VHF certificate is held and the number is known.

"The assessment or examination takes the form of a practical and written test on radiotelephone voice procedures, operation of a Class D DSC controller and the regulations governing the use of a VHF Marine band radiotelephone in the Global Maritime Distress and Safety System, with particular emphasis on distress and urgency procedures."

There are 4 ways to get an SRC certificate:

1. For those with no certificate - Attend a full course run by an RYA Training Centre

2. For those with a non-GMDSS certificate - Attend a short course run by an RYA Training Centre

3. For those with no certificate who do not wish to attend a course - Apply to an RYA Training Centre for a full exam

4. For those with a non -GMDSS certificate who do not wish to attend a course- Apply to an RYA Training Centre for a conversion exam.


Points 1 & 2 are regularly covered off and in fact I'm running a conversion course this weekend.

As to points 3 & 4, here is the problem. It is not simply a case of someone coming into a course at the end and just sitting the written exam. For someone without a non DSC certificate they will have to do all the voice procedures based on a set of scenarios, they will then have to operate the DSC controller via either the computer simulator or the "dual" units used by some schools. Then the written exam has to be taken - and of course passed! I'm not for one moment saying it mind numbingly difficult - but if all you want is a "turn up and pass qualification" then I suggest you just issue certificates on application. I'm sure the MCA etc would be as "happy as larry" with that!

Courses are structured to cover all the points required to pass both the full course and the short version.

OK - so yes, somebody could just pick up the handbook and take the written part of the exam, but if they have never used a DSC set before then what? Do we fail them because they can't use either the set or the simulator? The answer must be yes. When it comes to voice procedures, as instructors, we give out scenario cards on which the student must make the appropriate call etc. On a full course we take them though a range of scenarios and work the student up to making the right call. If it’s purely done cold and they get it wrong - we surly have to fail them! Then when it comes to the written exam - during the course an instructor will emphasise the important points in a correct Mayday call - I can tell you from experience that even though a student may have written a Mayday call out as many as 4 times prior to actually getting to the written exam, and they can still get it wrong! So if they get it wrong in an exam, then, as the section covering the Mayday carries 6 marks out a total of 11 on the first section of the exam where the pass mark is 8 then they are going to fail the whole exam as you can't catch up on the 2nd section!

The costs, and these are payable to the RYA are:

1. Conversion Examination including the issue of the issue of the licence £23
2. Full SRC Examination including the issue of the licence £36
For those attending a course at an RYA Training Centre, a licence issue fee will be charged £20

The way a course is structured would not "allow" for a student to come in at the end of a full course as it would be disruptive to the other people on the full course, or for that matter even on a short course.

There is also the commercial aspect - unless an assessor has set him/herself up as a recognised exam centre and for a payment of £65 and a inspection this can be done.Some instructors do the exam in their front rooms for which the RYA pay them a small fee - frankly not worth the time or the effort - then all assessors must do it through an existing recognised shore based RYA school.

I do not know any schools which run exam only sessions - it is not commercially viable. Adult ed centres do run courses and they are cheaper than a commercial school because they are subsidised, in fact I'd like to be an instructor with one - you even get paid for preparation time!

In addition, the time spent by instructors putting together a course is fairly intensive - I spent 6 weeks putting my course together, plus there is the cost of investing in other equipment - a set of DSC simulators costs £600 plus. Also "You" want a licence for both sets to be strictly legal!!

I for one will not run exam only sessions, despite all the claims that people can get it all from a book!

Oh and yes, of course I have a vested interest - I payed to become an instructor because it's what I do for a living amongst other "boaty" things. We don't actually earn a fortune out of it either and I get mighty fed up when people want things for nothing when the regulations state that an SRC certificate is a legal requirement to operate a marine VHF radio.

I enjoy what I do and I hope that comes across in my courses - I try and make it as fun and informative as possible so that all participants pass. As I'm sure you are aware, all instructors are independently assessed and I had one at the end of last year and my rating was 8/10 - well, nobodies perfect!

Right rant over!


PS: Mike this is not aimed at you personally! The issue of VHF certificates comes up on the forum almost with monotonous regularity and while you put forward Ofcom's viewpoint those of the instructors don't always get heard. We deliver what government and international regulations dictate.Maybe we should be failing more than we do!

 

[powerskipper]

PS. We as instructor want you to pass and to be able to use the sets properly in an emergence, we will give you as much practise as possible in the class room.
In the hope that in an emergency some of it will be remembered, We also pass on tips we have picked up , and that have been passed on to us from other instructors, or in some case,s students, That mite just help some one save your life or you save some one else's life, It is in a lot of cases the ONLY way to get help when on the water, We teach by the use of scenario card , what is a mayday and who you can ask for help in different situation.
So this course is worth sitting though, you mite be able to help someone one day by just being in that class and viewing your ideas on the different scenario, You never know we mite pick some tips up from ,YOU.