Shame on you Hugo

[MedDreamer]

Whilst I support the MBM Red Alert campaign I think that balance has to be kept in any argument.

According to Hugo, I and my fellow petrol boaters are a danger to ourselves, our crew and other boat users by using our floating bombs. Whilst it is undoubtebly true that petrol is more inherently dangerous than diesel, that is not the same as saying that petrol boats are unsafe which is what the Red Alert article implies.

Come on Hugo, you have just condemned a large proportion of your readership as dangers on the high seas. If we need saving from ourselves why do you allow petrol boats to be advertised for sale in your esteemed organ?

Martyn



<hr width=100% size=1>Living the dream

 

[gjgm]

I think you put that very well... it is not true to say that petrol boats are unsafe.
I wonder if there are any stats available from the Land (Sea) of the V8 as to how many of their massive number of petrol driven leisure boats do suddenly explode?
Well I guess the upside is that if you own a petrol boat, at least you arent going to drown!

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[steverow]

I think Hugo is using it as a valid argument. Please dont take it as a slight upon all petrol boaters.
I think it is generally accepted that a tankful of Petrol is inherently way way more flammable than a tankful of diesel..with all the associated dangers.
As with all these things it is down to the management of the risk, and nobody is suggesting that you dont manage your fuel risk well.
It is just common sense that with more Petrol boats around the risk will rise proportionately.
We need all the ammunition we can get to retain the derogation, and the diesel v. Petrol argument on safety grounds is just one piece of that jigsaw.

Please give the bloke a break, he's trying his best...and as far as I can see, is the only editor in the IPC marine community with enough guts to stick his neck on the block.





Steve.


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[wakeup]

A friend was on my petrol boat last weekend and commented that my 2kg fire extingusher wasn't big enough to cope with a potential fire. I told him that if my boat ever showed signs of anything other than the smallest fire I'd be straight over the side rather trying to battle a blaze. He acknowledged that this was probably the best thing to do /forums/images/icons/smile.gif and you don't need to fire any flares as the explosion should be seen from miles around.....

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[MedDreamer]

Steve

You are right to say we need as much ammo as possible. The problem is that if the argument used is not sound, then politicians are very good at using statistics to disprove them, and if they can do that with facts on one part of the argument they will then try to discredit all other, possibly more valid, points using that disproved one as an example of how unsound the whole case is.

Does that read right? I know what I mean....

Martyn

<hr width=100% size=1>Living the dream

 

[Kevin]

I was over in Miami a while back and a 60 foot or so boat went up luckily no body onboard, it burnt away to a goo in a matter of minutes and the firecrews admitted that their job isnt to halt the fire but to contain if from spreading to other vessels. I agree with you any fire and im off! personally i cant see a cat in hells chance of saving the boat if the fire real takes hold.

kevin

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[MedDreamer]

60ft - I bet that wasn't petrol - so diesel boats burn as well eh?

Martyn

<hr width=100% size=1>Living the dream

 

[jhr]

Do diesel boats burn?

Not unknown, I believe. The words "Sunseeker" and "Port Solent" spring to mind.

Whether petrol or diesel, one point worth making is that GRP burns like billy-o, and doesn't really care whether the engine is petrol or diesel!

I'm with the cowardly majority on this one; if the engine bay extinguisher doesn't stop the fire, it's time for Elvis to leave the building..........

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[BarryH]

Oh dear!, here we go again, that old nugget of petrol v diesel in the safety stakes. Yes petrol is more inherently explosive as its got a lower flash point than diesel. BUT if it was so dangerous why are the yanks still building boats with petrol engines in them. In a society that is so quick to "sue the shirt off your back" and theres so many ambulance chasing lawyers about then surely if petrol as a marine fuel was that dangerous the boat builders would shy away from it!

Common sense. Its a shame that its lacking in this day and age. If a petrol fuel system is checked and looked after I can see no problems with it. The crux of the matter, as I'm led to believe, is that the people who own and run larger diesel powered craft for lesuire are up in arms about the price hike of their fuel. Not an unreasonabl reaction. It happens every budget when road fuel/fags/booze go up in price. But pushing the arguement onto other fuels will not help the matter, especially one that in reality is unfounded. Do a search on the MCA/RNLI sites and see how many petrol boats went up in smoke over the years! Its pleasing, as a petrol user, to see that the number is quite small compared to "other" fires aboard boats.


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[MedDreamer]

Spot on Barry, I find it a shame that MBM had to resort to dissing petrol to make their case for diesel. If thats the best they can do then its a lost cause

Martyn

<hr width=100% size=1>Living the dream

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Yeah - what on earth would he make of my LPG / Petrol machine??

<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[[2068]]

>
>why are the yanks still building boats with petrol engines in them.
>

because:
- petrol is two dollars something a (US) gallon
- they view complex, expensive, hard-to-fix, diesels with suspicion, and petrol V8's as something more familiar
- they have some boaters that are more performance orientated (the "go fast" brigade, the sport fishermen)

And yes, per boat, the Americans have more fires, explosions, collisions and sinkings than the UK. Petrol vs Diesel is only part of the equation but do we really want to go this way ?

dv.

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[BarryH]

"And yes, per boat, the Americans have more fires, explosions, collisions and sinkings than the UK."...........and why does that not surprise me I wonder! BUT on the other hand, just to bring a bit of balance into the equation, the yanks have a larger boat owning percentage of the population than us Brits. Plus the fact that their country/population is larger than ours as well the laws of averages takes over.
I won't mention the fact that they're american........that wouldn't be PC you know.

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[[2068]]

I only know about the Solent, but at the moment on a busy day there are:
- Sailboats at 8 knots
- Cruiser Mobos at 20-30knots
- RIBS at 25-45knots

So lets assume that some of these smaller cruiser mobos will do one of three things:
- Stay plodding along passagemaking with diesel
- Convert to a petrol version of something similar, but this won't make much sense for a lot of people, because they won't be able to afford the fuel to go places and warrant staying overnight much. Unless they never go anywhere.
- Convert to a petrol high performance boat (e.g. pointy, speed stripes, twin 8.1L V8's). This will change the nature of the sport. 50-60 knots, flying off waves, shorter day trips.

Net result is that it all gets a bit scary. NOT because petrol boats are floating timebombs, but because trundling along sedately at 20knots over a long distance will seem like a bizarre fetish, rather than the norm.

The reason I have a relatively slow 24ft diesel cruiser is that I am happy to sacrifice performance to keep the fuel costs down. If my fuel costs suddenly triple, then I want more performance for my money...

dv.

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[BarryH]

Umm, I'm not keeping up with you here. We're talking the dnager of using petrol as a fuel. Not the brain dead twats at the helm. As far as Twin 8 point whatever goes. If "they" couldn't afford to run 2 large'ish diesels then 2 8ltr V8 behemouths would be way out of "their" league.........I'm getting bored with this now.

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[[2068]]

You are right, it'll all be just fine.
Nothing to worry about at all.
That nice Mr Blair will make the right choice, I'm sure.
Not even worth discussing.
Boring, yup.

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[Talbot]

This point illustrates my belief that the liferaft should be stowed on the stern of the boat so that even the smallest member of the crew can deploy it. no point in having a valise down in the cabin if you cant get down to it. and no point in having it sat in a cage by the mast if it is too heavy to lift.

furthermore, how many people keep their liferaft locked while they are off the boat, and then forget to remove the padlock when they go to sea?

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[Mike21]

Barry
It's probably because of the yanks that people think petrol more dangerous than
diesel/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[MedDreamer]

Just looking through the rest of MBM, found the article about GRP repairs - is that a petrol boat you have there Hugo?

Martyn

<hr width=100% size=1>Living the dream

 

[BarryH]

Lets face it, give the yanks anything and its more dangerous in their hands.........not that I've got anything against the yanks you understand

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