Sewage Leaks -- Help Please

Plomong

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For some time I have been trying to cure the sewage leaks shown in the attached photos by tightening the circlips, but to no avail. I disconnected the hose behind the toilet (photo 1) and cleaned it before reconnecting, but no joy -- there is still a slow leak, maybe a few drops a day. At first I thought that maybe time would heal the "wound", but no, this leak persists.

The leaks at the connections to the holding tank (photos 2 to 4) are more severe, as they went unnoticed for some time, before I tightened the clips yesterday. Today, all 3 connections have had new weepages.

My questions for the forum are:

1) What can I do to make sure the connection is properly sealed when I remake them tomorrow? What sealant or other trick should I use ???

A neighbour suggested Sikaflex 291, but I'm not too sure about the quality of that advice. Any comments ??

2) Will remaking them be enough, or are there some other steps or precautions I should take as I do so.

3) Some pipes show evidence of either sprayed liquid or internal pinholes. This is shown in photos 5 and 6. What are they, in your opinion ????

Many thanks for your help,

Plomong
 
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BGW

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For some time I have been trying to cure the sewage leaks shown in the attached photos by tightening the circlips, but to no avail. I disconnected the hose behind the toilet (photo 1) and cleaned it before reconnecting, but no joy -- there is still a slow leak, maybe a few drops a day. At first I thought that maybe time would heal the "wound", but no, this leak persists.

The leaks at the connections to the holding tank (photos 2 to 4) are more severe, as they went unnoticed for some time, before I tightened the clips yesterday. Today, all 3 connections have had new weepages.

My questions for the forum are:

1) What can I do to make sure the connection is properly sealed when I remake them tomorrow? What sealant or other trick should I use ???

A neighbour suggested Sikaflex 291, but I'm not too sure about the quality of that advice. Any comments ??

2) Will remaking them be enough, or are there some other steps or precautions I should take as I do so.

3) Some pipes show evidence of either sprayed liquid or internal pinholes. This is shown in photos 5 and 6. What are they, in your opinion ????

Many thanks for your help,

Plomong

Would it help if you heated the tubing before you tightened the clips? - If the tubing is softer it may help the clips get a better seal - I would be wary of using sealant in case you need to break and remake the joint.
 

vyv_cox

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Some of the staining looks like rust from reinforcing wire. The hose clips appear to be tight enough to prevent leakage and I suggest that perhaps the inner layer is leaking into the space between the inner and outer. I would replace the hose first. I have managed to seal similar leaks with silicone sealant and I guess that Sikaflex would work just as well.
 

Fr J Hackett

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Is the hose a tight push fit onto the fitting, if not I doubt that any tightening of the jubilee clip will compress a relatively hard hose to seal on the fitting. If that is the case new hose of the correct id is the real answer but you could try building the od of the fitting up with a wrap or two of insulating tape then heating the hose in boiling water to soften it and push on the fitting then tighten the clips.

What make of hose is it ? it does not look like sanitation hose. If you do seal it with tape I would consider it temporary and try to find a hose that is a tight fit.
 

Modulation

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Another vote for replacing the hose. I had a similar problem a while back and no amount of cleaning. heating , sealing or even brute force sorted it.
But a new hose did. I used boiling water to soften it before pushing it onto the spigots.
good luck.
 

alan

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I have a Ben 343 and I thought your pics looked familiar!! I had a problem with the hose that goes from the holding tank to the large seacock; at the seacock no amount of tightening the clips or re-positioning the hose would stop rusty water slowly leaking from that end .... it could be (as already suggested) that water is getting between the inner and outer rubber layers and rusting the wire re-inforcing. My tube was too short to cut off the end and re-make it, so I had to buy a new length of hose. The hose was 60mm diameter on my boat and in the end I had to buy it from Beneteau as I could not find that diameter locally.

I would suggest replacing the hose; I used a hot-air gun to soften the ends and lots of swear words to route it inside the holding tank "cupboard"!!!! But have had no problems since replacing it. BTW my boat is 2006 vintage, maybe they had a bad batch of hose that year???

Alan.
 

Plomong

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I take it the pix are of the outlet side.

They are:
1 Toilet rear.
2. Hose arriving to tank from toilet.
3. Hose going to pump.
4. Hose at pump inlet.
5. Hose on pump outlet side just above pump.
6. Hose going to pump, just as it leaves the tank.

Could there be some blockage somewhere (or someone trying to pump against a closed cock) that is pressurising the hose and causing the leaks?

No. The outlet runs free. The original leak, in the toilet area, was caused by use of the pump instead of the manual toilet pump -- with the cock closed !!!

Plomong
 
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Plomong

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Some of the staining looks like rust from reinforcing wire. The hose clips appear to be tight enough to prevent leakage and I suggest that perhaps the inner layer is leaking into the space between the inner and outer.

That's my suspicion also.

Is there any way to test for this hypothesis ?? Apart from cutting open the hose ???

Edit:
Just had a close look at one of the photos -- see below. Looks like the leak is not between the plastic and the fitting, but is along some thread, fibre or wire in the sheathing. Do you agree ???

Plomong
 
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Plomong

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Is the hose a tight push fit onto the fitting.

Yes, it appears to be the correct diameter.

What make of hose is it ? it does not look like sanitation hose.

Original as supplied with the boat, from the makers, so it should be sanitation hose !!! However, I'll ask the agent, just in case it is considered a poor quality, even though it is the manufacturer-supplied hose.
 

Plomong

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Another vote for replacing the hose. I had a similar problem a while back and no amount of cleaning. heating , sealing or even brute force sorted it.
But a new hose did. I used boiling water to soften it before pushing it onto the spigots.
good luck.

Was it the same type of hose?

My hose seems to be a plastic of some sort covered with a cloth sheathing, possibly with a spiral-wound wire reinforcing under the sheathing. Is that what you had, that gave problems ???

Plomong
 

Plomong

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I have a Ben 343 and I thought your pics looked familiar!! I had a problem with the hose that goes from the holding tank to the large seacock; at the seacock no amount of tightening the clips or re-positioning the hose would stop rusty water slowly leaking from that end .... it could be (as already suggested) that water is getting between the inner and outer rubber layers and rusting the wire re-inforcing. My tube was too short to cut off the end and re-make it, so I had to buy a new length of hose. The hose was 60mm diameter on my boat and in the end I had to buy it from Beneteau as I could not find that diameter locally.

I would suggest replacing the hose; I used a hot-air gun to soften the ends and lots of swear words to route it inside the holding tank "cupboard"!!!! But have had no problems since replacing it. BTW my boat is 2006 vintage, maybe they had a bad batch of hose that year???

Alan.

My boat is that same year: 2006, so maybe it is a known problem.

Could you please take a look at the three photos I posted just a few minutes ago showing the ends of the hose in close-up. Does this look like what you experienced ??

If so, it looks like it will be necessary to replace two hoses: toilet to tank and tank to pump: about 4+ metres in all.

The hose looks to be about 38 mm ID, but I didn't measure it so cannot be sure. If it is not a standard size, I'll have to get it from Beneteau. Ouch !!!

The hard part will be getting at the hose under the pump -- it is just behind the tank, with no hope of getting my hand in there, so I'll have to remove the tank !!!

Plomong
 
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PetiteFleur

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Another vote for replacing the hose. I had a similar problem a while back and no amount of cleaning. heating , sealing or even brute force sorted it.
But a new hose did. I used boiling water to soften it before pushing it onto the spigots.
good luck.

I had a similar problem some years ago. I had fitted new proper sanitation hoses to my loo during the winter and I asked the boatyard to check the hoses when launched - and it was lucky I did, the new hose clip had pierced the new hose and there was a small jet of water, also I had not turned off the seacock correctly(I thought I had). The boat cut off the damaged piece of hose and reclipped the hose.
 

alan

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Plomong,
Your pics 2 & 3 look similar to the prob that I had, although I had much less "water" leaking out; also the hose on my boat did not have the discolourisation that can be seen on the hose body in your pics.

Alan.
 

Plomong

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Plomong,
Your pics 2 & 3 look similar to the prob that I had, although I had much less "water" leaking out; also the hose on my boat did not have the discolourisation that can be seen on the hose body in your pics.

Alan.

Thanks, Alan. That would seem to confirm my suspicions that the problem is internal in the hoses, so new ones are necessary. Tomorrow I'll get to it,

Plomong
 

vyv_cox

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My very expensive butyl rubber toilet hose left rust stains similar to yours. I bought replacement hose from Tek-tanks, although I think that Lee Sanitation are the main suppliers. The new stuff doesn't seem to suffer the same problems.
 
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Some of the staining looks like rust from reinforcing wire. The hose clips appear to be tight enough to prevent leakage and I suggest that perhaps the inner layer is leaking into the space between the inner and outer. I would replace the hose first. I have managed to seal similar leaks with silicone sealant and I guess that Sikaflex would work just as well.

I agree with this. I would add that if it is p[ossible to do so, replace some of the hose runs with domestic abs pipe, solvent welded. You can buy connectors from that to the new bits of flexible you install. The ABS will never leak and never let pongs through whilst flexible pipe always becomes micro porous after time due to the plasticisers used to make it flexible.
 

Plomong

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Thanks everyone for all your comments and advice.

Today I dismantled the holding tank and found:

1) Leaks are in the pipework. Leaks were clearly coming through the walls of the pipes and along the reinforcment to exit at the pipe ends. It is not clear yet whether the plastic is porous, or cracked when bent to fit the tiny space available, or damaged in some other way. The leaks are not between the hose and the elbow fittings -- these are all pristine except the one described next.

2) The tank outlet elbow to the pump was cracked over an arc of 150 degrees across the top of the elbow just under the lip of the hose. It was also cracked, but not immediately apparent, on the full under sector, but only across about 50-75% of the thickness of the fitting -- the outer part of the thickness. This looks consistent with having been stood on at some stage, or given a very solid knock. Since it is in an inaccessible area for either once the deck is in place, it looks like it could have happened at the factory, before deck join !!!!
This elbow was seriously soiled along the full length under the hose. None of the other couplings were soiled under the hose. The elbow for the hose coming from the WC, the most voluminous leak area, was slightly soiled, but only under 2 mm of the lip of the hose and outwards from there.

3) The leak under the pump (inlet fitting) is in a place where the liquid could only be under suction!!! The fitting was pristine in the area covered by the hose, but the hose end (forgot to photograph it) was clearly leaking, as described above, between the layers of the hose.

See photos for more evidence (note image names for location of element shown, in each case).

One final question: The float arm of the level indicator was in the bottom of the tank. Why is the metal arm corroded over about 3 cms of its length, and not anywhere else ??? The sensor looks to be a variable capacitor type, with the arm connected to the moving vanes of the capacitor. The sensor was so positioned as to have the arm rubbing up and down against the pump suction pipe !!!! This is one for Vetus Quality Control -- they should ensure that the swing of the arm is aligned directly across the tank and not at about 30 degrees, where it interferes with the suction pipe.

Once again, thanks for your help and advice. Have ordered a new sensor, hoses and elbow fitting. Should be here by early next week.

Plomong

PS: The pong these leaks caused cannot be described -- just as well SWMBO did not "sample" it or there would be electricity in the air -- MVs and MWs !!!!

Pong now eliminated by AquaChem Blue. Marvellous stuff.
 

alan

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Sewage Leaks

Plomong,

Your pics #9 & #10 look just like the end of the pipe that I replaced. It's strange and would seem to indicate a pipe defect. However, the replacement piece that I fitted about 2 years ago is of the same type but is fine. Could it be that Beneteau use too much heat on the pipe when they are fitting them and this is causing the inner-outer to separate??

Alan.
 
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