setting a trysail

[RobbieW]

Of course, but that's what I'm keen to avoid - fiddling with lazyjacks and sail ties on a bouncing coachroof in a rising storm. Also, lowering the boom involves a happy half hour with pliers trying to extract the split pins from the kicker at a time when it's the place you'd least like to be.

I

Coupla thoughts - youre going to be at the mast to raise the trysail anyway, yes ? Ok you want to minimise the time spent there for sure. If this is a serious requirement, then look for ways to make it easy - assume you have a topping lift ? how about putting dropnose pins (or similar quick release) in the kicker ? tying the lazies back could be part of lashing down the main - if its in the stack bag most of the jobs done - its mostly a question of preparation and practice. Having everything to hand and not solving problems in extremis

 

[Martin_J]

In the ISAF offshore regulations I seem to think the area would be less than 40% of the mainsail area.

From the regulations..
"a storm trysail which shall be capable of being sheeted independently of the boom with trysail area not greater than 17.5% mainsail hoist (P) x mainsail foot length (E). The storm trysail area shall be measured as (0.5 x leech length x shortest distance between tack point and leech). The storm trysail shall have neither headboard nor battens, however a storm trysail is not required in a yacht with a rotating wing mast which can adequately substitute for a trysail.
The method of calculating area applies to sails made in January 2012 and after. "

As to setting it.. We have a main where the slides will all drop below the mast gate. Our Trysail can therefore be hoisted in the normal mast slot - but it's a struggle reaching that high to hoist it in a rough sea...

I would like to install a separate track running down to deck level so that it could be attached much more safely... but the spreader bases wrap a long way around the mast so there is no easy straight route up for a track. (So it might have to be a track that passes over the spreader bases if I go that route).

Intended use is as others have suggested - a broken boom perhaps.. Although as others have said - It might be handy putting the boom on deck - We could knock out the pin in the rod kicker.. Nice to have a spare pin though

 

[prv]

In the ISAF offshore regulations I seem to think the area would be less than 40% of the mainsail area.

From the regulations..
"a storm trysail which shall be capable of being sheeted independently of the boom with trysail area not greater than 17.5% mainsail hoist (P) x mainsail foot length (E).

So with some simplifiying assumptions about sail shape, I think that works out to 35% of the full mainsail area. Less than the 40%, but still a smidge more than my third reef . Of course this is a maximum size, they could be smaller in practice.

I would like to install a separate track running down to deck level so that it could be attached much more safely... but the spreader bases wrap a long way around the mast so there is no easy straight route up for a track.

Does it definitely need to pass the spreaders? My third reef only goes a little way above them, and a trysail is generally wide and low, so might it just fit below especially if deliberately made to?

Pete

 

[charles_reed]

Though I have a storm jib, the one time I tried it, it proved too large, so I use my 65% yankee on the roller furler, which rolls down smaller than the storm foresail.
Likewise, a fourth reef, bringing the main down to about 5m2 from its 32m2 full seems to work well.

On a small single-handed boat a trysail appears overkill and more trouble than it's worth the put up.

The one advantage is that you don't have that heavy boom slamming around and getting its end in the water.

 

[Martin_J]

PRV - Good point as to whether or not the trysail would fit below the spreaders if not hoisted as high...

The photo at my link below shows that it hoists to above the spreaders because the mainsail is still on the boom and the usual mast track has been used.

This way, any forward pressure on the mast will be checked by the aft lower shrouds which is good - although another look at the picture shows that even with the trysail tack as low as the gooseneck, it would leave the head above the spreaders (I think).. A track to one side could be installed up to the spreaders but then I don't think the sail would be usable on both tacks due to location of the gooseneck..

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=D57B857B59D08B86!1917&authkey=!AHaq6fONaWHpyW4&v=3&ithint=photo%2cJPG

 

[prv]

The photo at my link below shows that it hoists to above the spreaders because the mainsail is still on the boom and the usual mast track has been used.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=D57B857B59D08B86!1917&authkey=!AHaq6fONaWHpyW4&v=3&ithint=photo%2cJPG

Useful picture. Sadly I can't see any sensible trysail fitting below your lower spreaders - I only have one pair so they are higher up, indeed roughly where the head of your sail is in that pic.

Pete

 

[Martin_J]

prv - Indeed..

When first hoisting that sail I'm sure that I tried hoisting to the lower spreaders just to see where the clew was and I'm sure it was below the gooseneck. I'll give it another try some day...

BTW - Who spotted the ybw flag in the photo

 

[Woodlouse]

In the ISAF offshore regulations I seem to think the area would be less than 40% of the mainsail area.

From the regulations..
"a storm trysail which shall be capable of being sheeted independently of the boom with trysail area not greater than 17.5% mainsail hoist (P) x mainsail foot length (E). The storm trysail area shall be measured as (0.5 x leech length x shortest distance between tack point and leech). The storm trysail shall have neither headboard nor battens, however a storm trysail is not required in a yacht with a rotating wing mast which can adequately substitute for a trysail.
The method of calculating area applies to sails made in January 2012 and after. "

As to setting it.. We have a main where the slides will all drop below the mast gate. Our Trysail can therefore be hoisted in the normal mast slot - but it's a struggle reaching that high to hoist it in a rough sea...

I would like to install a separate track running down to deck level so that it could be attached much more safely... but the spreader bases wrap a long way around the mast so there is no easy straight route up for a track. (So it might have to be a track that passes over the spreader bases if I go that route).

Intended use is as others have suggested - a broken boom perhaps.. Although as others have said - It might be handy putting the boom on deck - We could knock out the pin in the rod kicker.. Nice to have a spare pin though

You could have a tri sail track that merges with the mainsail track just above the point the sail stacks when down. This isn't an uncommon way of doing it.

 

[snowleopard]

On my first 'real' boat I had a trysail made. The plan was to lower the boom to the deck and lash it down rather than leave it flopping around restrained by sheet and topping lift. A quick lashing around the boom and sail would allow any lazyjacks to be pulled forward out of the way. That was the theory but when I did find myself needing to get off a lee shore with F9 blowing and 10 forecast, I set the storm jib, adjusted the vane gear to a close reach and off she went at 6 knots upwind. The trysail went back in the locker and stayed there.

 

[mjcoon]

You could have a tri sail track that merges with the mainsail track just above the point the sail stacks when down. This isn't an uncommon way of doing it.

Don't you need a signal box with a lever to switch the points? Or just need to guide the slides the right way when bringing a sail down?

Mike.

 

[Wansworth]

Tonsome extent the need for storm sails is linked with the displacement of the boat.With modern sail material ordinary working sails are pretty tough and up to the strength needed on a medium displacement or light displacement hull.In the old days with heavier displacement boats and stretchy canvas heavy canvas was needed to propel boats in very strong winds.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Of course, but that's what I'm keen to avoid - fiddling with lazyjacks and sail ties on a bouncing coachroof in a rising storm. Also, lowering the boom involves a happy half hour with pliers trying to extract the split pins from the kicker at a time when it's the place you'd least like to be.

I

You can put bungee cord in legs of the lazyjacks to allow them to lower with the boom and fit an R clip in the kicker so that it is easy to remove use some insulation tape wrap if you wish to be absolutely sure of it. Using that set up and a separate track with the staysail on a webbing strop attached to the base of the mast and the clew with two sheets spliced into it ready to be taken back to turning blocks on the quarters and main winches the boom could easily be lowered and the trisail set quickly. Of course that is an offshore set up and it's highly unlikely that one would ever envisage let alone using a trisail on a coastal or cross channel voyage.

 

[wklein]

Nobody has made any mention of how difficult it is to detach a gas kicker even at the dock, it is pretty unfeasible when in storm conditions.

 

[basic]

I remember that somewhere in Hiscocks' Wandering Under Sail he says words to the effect of. 'Those who glibly refer to setting the trisail have never actually done it in a small boat in bad weather'

 

[Sybarite]

I have a trysail, but like most people have never set it. I've come very close, but a deep third reef always saw me through.

However, the day may come and I'm not certain how easy it would be to set with lazyjacks and a stackpack.

I have a track in which to hoist it, and a spare halyard or two. But I can't fathom a way of flying it which would allow me to tack without striking it and resetting it on the other side - I think I would sheet it to the quarter, which seems to be the accepted way of doing it.

I could lower the lazyjacks and bring them f'ward to the mast, but then the mainsail would be free to spill out, which is not what you want in a gale.

Any wisdom to share, anyone?

By chance a little earlier today I happened to read this article by the Rev Bob Shepton:

"My trysail has a dedicated track bolted on to the mast alongside the main track, and the sail sits in its bag at the foot with the slides already rigged before ever we leave port. I believe in trysails. I am told that, with today’s improved sailcloth, a fourth reef can be just as good, but how do you rig a fourth lot of luff and leech pennants?

We used the trysail a lot in the continual gales, or near gales, we found sailing east to west round Cape Horn from Antarctica in 1994, but, as we were trying to make progress, I did not find it entirely satisfactory. Conventional wisdom dictates that the trysail sheet should be brought down to a cleat aft. Though possibly fine for heaving to, it lacked drive. In the end we dispensed with the trysail and just close reached on a No.3 jib hanked onto the inner forestay, which turned out to be an effective means of making progress.

Years later in the Atlantic I decided to run the trysail sheet through a block on the boom end and back to a purchase on the mast. I can control its draught using the purchase at the mast, and its angle using the mainsheet. It is not quite so effective on this second Dodo’s Delight (the first, also a Westerly Discus, was destroyed by fire while wintering in Greenland ice) as her trysail is cut slightly differently – nothing to do with the large ‘13’ stitched on it."

 

[Koeketiene]

The reason that a tri-sail may be a better option than a 3rd reef (60% reduction in sail area) is that it does away with the boom. In a big sea the boom can dig in on a roll and slam back again as the yacht rolls the other way or just slam about when in the lee in big seas.

Boombrake?

 

[Koeketiene]

I think the only thing that would lead to me hoisting a tri sail instead of just using a deep reef would be if the boom failed when offshore.

+1