Sensible sailing boat/dinghy for family to learn to sail on lake etc?

[Nick2]

Would like to start family on a trailable sailing boat eg Wayfairer type perhaps that will take two adults (well Joanne and I..) and two small girls (5 and 7) to initially use on local resevoirs and lakes etc.

Any ideas on what boat to consider particularly one that we can sell on again next year?

As we are seriously considering buyer a family cruising boat I think this might be a sensible way to get used to the principals of sailing.

All ideas gratefully received

Thanks

Nick

 

[mirabriani]

I found an Enterprise easier to handle
as it is lighter. Grp and galvanised trailer
is worth the extra. Also choice of sails is
worth having.

Regards Briani

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Nick,

First decide where you are going to sail primarily, then take a look around there, and see what is the primary boat of the sort you are looking for that is sailed there.....

That way you'll be surrounded by people that know how to set the boat up for best performance, ready availability of spares, and plenty of chance to sell it on if or when you decide to move on....

But.... a Wayfarer would be a good starting point....

 

[IanR]

Having sailed a number of dinghies for quite a few years in different places , having raced and cruised (with a tent) them I think that you should consider the following

Size - 2 adults plus 2 kids is doable but realistically it does restrict you to larger boats such as Wayfarer, it will rule out Mirrors and the newer designs unless you want to pay a lot.

Weight - size increases so will weight, this is not an issue on the water but it will mean you need to think about launching and recovery and make sure that you have good equipment so a combination trolley and maybe even a winch are worth thinking about remember you might have to do some of these things on your own and pulling a heavy boat up the beach is not good for your back or your temper!

Cost - most of these size boats have a reasonable second hand value and depreciate after a few years to a point where you will probably get back what you paid so long as you don't abuse the boat or weren't suckered when you bought it. I suggest that you check out the Class associations for a comparison of "market pricing" and use them to offer local advice the Wayfarer association is particularly good www.wayfarer.org.uk

Lastly - Kids

I started sailing as a youngster and have brought my own kids up to sail, let them enjoy it, so avoid risk, don't frighten them, they need to retain confidence in you and get them involved early as they will pick it up fast and keep them dressed properly in clothes that allow them to feel warm and safe enough. Oh and my tip - keep a goody bag on board with the crisps and sweets to ease the boredom that can occur.

Good luck

 

[snowleopard]

Re: Sensible sailing boat/dinghy for family to learn to sail on lake e

can't go along with choice of an enterprise over a wayfarer. yes, they are lighter but they are primarily racing boats and can be a serious handful in a blow. i may be prejudiced by having raced one in the bristol channel which is a pretty serious stretch of water.

a wayfarer will get you home safely and won't frighten off the kids or mrs. also it can be sold for the same price when you are ready to trade up.

 

[Talbot]

You have had recommendations for wayfarer and enterprise - both good boats depending on the level of expertise of your crew and enthusiasm for boating, however you might also consider a drascombe http://www.drascombe.co.uk/lugger.html

 

[Jeremy_W]

Dinghy or Small Keelboat?

To take a slightly different tack, do you want a dinghy (capsizeable) or a small keelboat? I love Wayfarers and spent my childhood summers sailing them on the Solent. But they are dinghies and you'll have to train the whole family in how to turn them right way up after a capsize. Certainly the Wayfarer is a better choice than the Enterprise which is horribly sensitive to fore-and-aft trim.

The alternative is a small keelboat where you won't capsize: The old faithful is the Squib, which is dirt cheap unless you buy a racing version with Goacher sails and all the go-fast kit. The new kids on the block are the Hawk and the Raider and neither is cheap.

 

[SilverBreeze]

Have a look at a Laser 16, bigger than a Wayfarer, quite stable, reefable.
Two currently on www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk
Should have decent resale value, active class association.

Mirror too small, Enterprise too tippy.

 

[paulrossall]

There is a massive difference between sailing in a dinghy (likely to capsize) and a more stable sailing boat with some sort of fixed keel/balast. Why don't you look at a Skipper 17 or the more up to date version, the Eagle (but 3 or 4 X the price).
You will buy a Skipper for the price of a Wayfarer ...about £2,000, but you moght get one for a lot less.
A Skipper has 2 drop keel so draft goes from 9inches to about 2ft6ins from memory. It has a cabin and in theory 2 adults and 2 children can sleep in it. It is easy enough to launch and recover and would normaly have a 4 to 6 hp outboard.
We had ours on lakes, Rutland Water and Windamere, at Anglesey, North Norfolk, on the river Trent and on the East Coast once on the Orwell. They are stable and if you have a furling genoa they are simple to control from the cockpit. One big advantage is the cabin where kids and/or SWMBO can sit out of the wind and rain, perhaps making a cup of tea whilst you handle the boat.
Unless you are really keen on dinghy sailing and are prepared to buy the wet/dry suits for all the family I would shelve buying an open day boat. If you want to experience dinghy sailing I would take all the family on one of these shore based courses in Greece or Turkey run by Sunsail (or similar). However you might get keen on dinghys....until you come back to our climate.
If you want to know more about Skipper send me a PM and I will look up my old boat file. I now have a 30ft sail boat and have sold my Skipper. Good Luck. Paul

 

[DavidofMersea]

> Would like to start family on a trailable sailing boat

Why do you want to start a family on a trailable sailing boat? Most people start a family in bed - it is more comfortable

 

[pragmatist]

Re: Sensible sailing boat/dinghy for family to learn to sail on lake e

Always ensure that the self-bailers on your Wayfarer are operating in the "right" direction - or take a large bucket if you sail with SnowLeopard ! (Hey and that's taking it back a few decades !)

 

[blackbeard]

I'll repeat what others have said, because it's an absolutely vital point.
Dinghies can capsize.
I hope no one will say "I'll be really careful and thus avoid a capsize" - Murphy's Law states that a capsize can still occur. Yes, it can.
Nothing to worry about provided you, and your crew, know what to do (and can swim, and are wearing buoyancy, of course).
Anyone who doesn't know needs to find out. Finding out involves a boat and water, and knowledgeable help, not just a book.
a. sail with someone who really knows how to do it, and/or b. join a local sailing club (recommended) and/or c. go on a RYA sailing course.
Having said which: dinghy sailing is great fun, and is also the quickest way of learning how to sail larger boats.
Choice of boat is less important; if you join a club you will get plenty of advice.
Of course you know all this. Excuse me for rabbitting on a bit, but there's always a danger that someone else reading this may think "all I need is a boat and I then can take my family sailing". Our guardian angel is very efficient but getting a bit overworked.
Good sailing
Mike beentheredonethat Forrest

 

[l'escargot]

If you are looking in the Wayfarer/Enterprise category, also look at the GP14. An old boat now but originally designed for what you are describing and reasonable ones can be picked up for a few hundred pounds - I paid £350 (without trailer) for one a couple of years ago just for messing around in. Go for fibreglass as opposed to wood.

 

[A1Sailor]

I would suggest that a GP14 is a bit small for a family of 4, and also a bit tippy. If willing to capsize Wayfarer would by my pick, otherwise small keelboat.

 

[Flogging_Molly]

Re: Sensible sailing boat/dinghy for family to learn to sail on lake e

If you want to start in dinghies I have to put my vote in for the GP14. Great boat and a great bunch of people to sail and learn with. Social side for families first rate. Self-draining design for the last 7-8 years is much better if you tip over.

We learned to sail in one and raced it as well as joining the cruising fleet. For many years (over 10) we sailed in company all over the country with other GP14 sailors, many of whom were families often sailing 4-up. When their children were older they simply took 2 Geeps or offered their kids as crew on other boats. The Geep hard chine is much less tippy than an Ent and very sturdy - often took care of us in some well dodgy weather. Boom is at a gentlemanly height as well, an important point.

Wayfarers are good family boats but like the Laser 16 any boat around this size gets big and heavy to manage on and off the shore. Likewise keelboats - but it depends where you want to sail most of the time. We managed regular twice-weekly reservoir racing in Somerset with river cruises (tamar), Plymouth Sound, Llandudno/Conwy, Carrick Roads, South coast... I don't think we ever capsized in all the years we cruised, which included sailing in F6's and once caught in a F7-8 squall. The ride up the standing wave at Mount Edgcumbe after a night of 75mph winds was particularly memorable /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Being an old boat doesn't mean it's not still valid. A lot of new dinghy designs have gone the way of cruisers, targeted at a particular niche or "lifestyles". Many are great fun racing round the cans but I would trust few of them to take care of me and my family when caught in a blow like a Geep.

F_M

 

[Tai_Lam]

Hi Nick,

My family situation is almost identical to your own and we regularly sail a GP 14 on the Clyde. With four on board it's cramped but reasonably stable, though you need to know what your about when the wind picks up.

The wayfarer or laser 16 will give you far more room but as others have said they are heavy to handle on land. Another compromise could be the Albacore, this has plenty of room for four, but the rig is powerful. You could try and get an old set of Firefly sails for use as a smaller cruising rig.

 

[gandy]

Re: Sensible sailing boat/dinghy for family to learn to sail on lake e

Vote for Wayfarer as well. But see what boats others are sailing in you areas. Its a big advantage if there are other people around with the same type of boat, to share opinions, advice etc. You'll need reefing on a Wayfarer, and either the small jib or furling gear for the genoa.

Tony S

 

[TrailerSailer]

My vote would go for a Laser 2000. This is exactly what we've done - started small with a Tinker, moved to a dinghy and now to a trailer sailer. The Laser is not a low cost option though - and there are few on the second hand market and they hold their value very well. More than adequate for 2+2. I've seen it with 6 teenagers in it whilst down at the Med and still sailing fast!

Has plenty of power when you want a bash and can be easily de-powered. Can be sailed single handed. I've has all sails up in fair winds when solo, but she does sail well with just the main. Relatively light and easy to launch. Also very stable. We can sail it on it's gunwale without inducing a capsize so recovery from the odd gust is relatively easy.

Downsides - no O/B bracket and no real option for a trapeze as the kids get older. Only other one as far as I’m concerned is that when solo and away from a rescue boat if you invert it is very difficult to right. Hence with the kids getting older I’m trading down to a Pico so mine will be coming up for sail soon – and I’m really sad about that…

If you want more info see our website…

 

[StugeronSteve]

How about a Swift 18. Very trailerable, great little sailing boat, fast but quite forgiving and a genuine little cruiser.

Steve.

 

[tcm]

principles of sailing for an ex-stinkie

I think getting a wayfarer for a lake is a rubbish idea if you plan a crusiing boat. Just rent one if you must, but all that falling in and spray is irrelevant for crusing boats.

The principles of sailing for stinkies are

1) it's a bit dog rough down below and in the cockpit- no sleek mobo-beating wood and comfinesss until you buy a Nordia for about 2million euros.

2) mind you, much cheaper innit? I used to spend £hundred on fuel for this trip you know and drone drone. One old saily git in france come up to me and said harhar i'd rather have my fuel bill than yours. I said well yeah matey, but i'd rather have my boat than your old heap see, and so would your entire crew! He went off in a bit of a huff, as thou it is fine for raggioes to insult mobos but not tother way around. But no question it is cheaper per mile, and loads cheaper per hour, cos you hardly move very much.

3) The sailing bit is easy : - see all those other sailing boats just over there? Well, whatever their sails are doing, make yours like that. Pretty simple really.

4) You won't win races using plan 3 above, but hardly anyone wins races and saily racing is pretty gutting unless you win by miles cos there sod all you can do about it like "trying harder", eh just like ellen at the moment, so yer just have to sit there and endure/watch yourself losing a race for several hours (or weeks or months). Cos against another boat it is down to teeny weeny adjustments in ropes. My usual command when racing against jimi frexample is "adjust or twiddle all the rtopes so we overtake him over there". But then the kids had the bright idea of ringing his mobile and saying it was an urgent call, so he fell behind then, so that's an idea as well. I spect they do this on the vendee globe - ring each other up and say ooh christ tons of wind up here ahead, so the people behind take all their sails down hehe.

5) With a sailing boat, you do get credited with loads of saily kudos and knowledge - just cos it's a saily boat. Turn up in a monster powerboat - uh-oh obviously he's an idiot. But 40 foot crappo rented saily boat it's skipper this and what's your advice on that yakety yak. So that's fairly good, i suppose. Sort of.

6) bigger sailing boats are better than small ones. In any case, you need warmer gear than on a mobo cos you will be on board for ages and ages.