Self Tacking Storm jib. ???

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Leonidas

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www.leonpapazoglou.com
I have recently installed an inner fore stay for the use of a storm jib and other sails The storm jib's sheets are led through blocks back to the winches which are at the aft cockpit, but they rub onto the inner lower shrouds of the standing rigging and limit the angle of the sail from the center line. Thus, sheeting inboard for a close haul can only be achieved by pulling in the windward sheet which again rubs onto the windward inner lower shroud. I was thinking of installing a small car onto the coach roof and attaching the sheet of the jib there instead and limit the travel to the point that gives an optimum angle for either port or starboard tack. Any experience or pitfalls in this approach?
Thanks for any advice and suggestions.
 
My experience of self tacking jibs is that it is amazing how often you want to back the jib when you can't.
One of the dinghies I sail has one.
Think about fluffing a tack sailing into a shifty river and you get the picture.
Don't forget that you don't need to point as high as you might think to the apparent wind with a storm jib as the true wind of 30knots is not going to move forwards much.
You could consider an arrangement of barber haulers perhaps?
Whatever it is, it needs to be strong, and if it's also versatile, that's plus.
 
lw395 said:
My experience of self tacking jibs is that it is amazing how often you want to back the jib when you can't.
One of the dinghies I sail has one.
Think about fluffing a tack sailing into a shifty river and you get the picture.
Don't forget that you don't need to point as high as you might think to the apparent wind with a storm jib as the true wind of 30knots is not going to move forwards much.
You could consider an arrangement of barber haulers perhaps?
Whatever it is, it needs to be strong, and if it's also versatile, that's plus.
Click to expand...

You can certainly use Barber Haulers secured to the mast base - or higher if there are robust cleats in the right place. Webbing works well, once the right length is determined.
 
I agree that a self tacker is a nuisance in rough weather as i have one on my Hanse
It is great to be able to manoeuvre in heavy weather with less sheets to handle when the cockpit is bouncing around
However, there have been many times where i just wished my Hanse could be just tacked into the heave too position & stay there
Regarding the sheet leads on the jib why not just alter the lines to go inside the shrouds with a couple of extra blocks mounted on short lines to fixed points. The lines could actually go to a point on the opposite shroud base & cross right over the cabin if needs be & be joined where they cross. Or be fitted to the mast base
There must be loads of options
 
Daydream believer said:
"....why not just alter the lines to go inside the shrouds with a couple of extra blocks mounted on short lines to fixed points.... Or be fitted to the mast base"


"You could consider an arrangement of barber haulers perhaps?"


"You can certainly use Barber Haulers secured to the mast base - or higher if there are robust cleats in the right place."
Click to expand...


I think we are agreed.... :rolleyes:
 
Once you are using a storm jib in earnest you probably need to sail a bit free to make way: you won't be pointing as high as you do under full sail. Also I certainly wouldn't want a sliding car on a track hammering around if you end up head to wind, the forces are significant.
 
Daydream believer said:
I agree that a self tacker is a nuisance in rough weather as i have one on my Hanse
It is great to be able to manoeuvre in heavy weather with less sheets to handle when the cockpit is bouncing around
However, there have been many times where i just wished my Hanse could be just tacked into the heave too position & stay there
Regarding the sheet leads on the jib why not just alter the lines to go inside the shrouds with a couple of extra blocks mounted on short lines to fixed points. The lines could actually go to a point on the opposite shroud base & cross right over the cabin if needs be & be joined where they cross. Or be fitted to the mast base
There must be loads of options
Click to expand...

Thanks. You got me thinking now. I wonder if leading the sheets through blocks fitted in either inboard side at the foot of the inner shrouds and straight over the coach roof should do the trick ??? Will it be strong enough for a 30 knot wind ??
 
Have I missed something here -- to use a storm jib in a force 7
It is only just getting beyond a breeze
Storm is force 10 !

I know you should act early, but isn't this a bit over the top ?
 
Leonidas said:
Thanks. You got me thinking now. I wonder if leading the sheets through blocks fitted in either inboard side at the foot of the inner shrouds and straight over the coach roof should do the trick ??? Will it be strong enough for a 30 knot wind ??
Click to expand...

Fix the lines to the chainplate not the shroud as you may kink the bottle screw
If they cannot stand 30 kts they will not hold the mast up in a blow
 
Personally I would be trying to arrange things so that I could sheet the storm jib hard without any chafe when close-ish to the wind. Might I humbly suggest that the real benefits of a storm jib are twofold or more and you need to allow for all options when choosing the sheeting arrangements.

Firstly you might want to try to make to windward in conditions that are overpowering the normal sails or at which the rolled head sail is no longer effective. This means that the storm jib needs to be sheeted in hard and tight to allow for sailing as close to the wind as the conditions will allow. One frequently has to sail a little 'free' as the boat needs to power through the waves. Boats usually need a deep third reef or a storm trysail to make progress in these conditions and even then, progress will be hard work and painfully slow.

Secondly, you need the storm jib to be able to be used as a riding sail. This usually means when hove to and the sail needs to be securely sheeted to windward. (As an aside most people try to hove to on starboard tack to make them the stand on vessel if another sailing vessel approaches! In reality a lot of people are past caring after a while in a real storm...)

Thirdly you might want to use the very small sail to run off before a storm. Might I suggest that sheeting angle is less critical in this use as you might find yourself taking the thing down and running under bare poles after a few minutes.... and if you keep it up you won't be worrying about efficient sail trim...! So long as its not flogging itself and the sail and sheets areb't chafing on things then you will be OK.

What cannot be overestimated is chafe. It may not be possible to achieve all of the above with the sheets lead in one particular way. A lot of seriously set up boats have separate blocks or eyes fitted for the storm jib sheets. My feeling (from what I understand of the OP's original post) is that he should consider leading the sheets inside the shrouds to get a close sheeting angle and avoid ANY chafe.

A barber hauler is a good option to think of, except it means another trip onto the deck. Think very carefully before making plans that force you to have lots of trips up forward. Once in a storm and on one boat, I took nearly an hour to get to the foredeck, do a job with a sail that needed lashing and return to the cockpit and I am a fairly fit strong 6'2" man!

All IMHO of course.
 
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