self tacking jib on sub 8 metre boat worth it?

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Shearwater

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Am planning to sell the mobo and go back to sailing this year but being mostly single handed and liking the quiet life thought I'd aim at a self tacking jib.

Are they as good an idea as they seem ? Easy to tack, yes; lose a bit of thrust, yes; not so many pieces of string, yes; easy to tack, yes ????

Have say £15000 to 18000 to spend on a later than 1990, 24 to 27 footer. Any ideas other than the Hunter 232 ??
 
I would say the answer to all your questions is yes. You will lose a bit of drive as a self-tacking jib can't have any overlap, however boats designed from the outset to use a self-tacker will typically have bigger mainsails to compensate, e.g. Hunters. www.britishhunter.co.uk/ Hunter's implementation is a good one I think. I've owned two of their boats (including current) and both sailed well. There is an option to fly a large light genoa, which Hunters call a Scooper, in light winds.
 
Shearwater said:
Am planning to sell the mobo and go back to sailing this year but being mostly single handed and liking the quiet life thought I'd aim at a self tacking jib.

Are they as good an idea as they seem ? Easy to tack, yes; lose a bit of thrust, yes; not so many pieces of string, yes; easy to tack, yes ????

Have say £15000 to 18000 to spend on a later than 1990, 24 to 27 footer. Any ideas other than the Hunter 232 ??
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I have never sailed with a self tacking jib, but I often sail single handed and, particularly in a beat, can definitely see that such an arrangement might make life a lot easier. One thought does occur: the ability to heave to is useful, and not to be lost if possible. If adopting a self tacking set up I would give serious thought to providing lines which could pull and hold the jib clew upwind if necessary. This would also allow the jib to be backed if having to manoeuvre under sail.
 
Self tacking Jib

I have never had one but have contemplated fitting one. My little boat has large main so if there is a bit of wind it has a small jib with barely any overlap. (Separate jibs on hanks) So I find single handing no problem with small jib, short amount of sheet to pull in and light sheet loads. It does give the option to back the jib for manouvering etc.
A self tacking jib often has a traveller system across the deck (in my case it would be right where the hatch is). You then need enough room to the clew of the jib for a tackle and room to get the pull down/aft angle correct for beating. When reaching the jib will be all out of shape.
Another option used on the old cutters is to have the jib on a boom. Here the sail is adjusted just like a mainsail with out haul then a sheet on a traveller or a sheet tackle to the middle and a vang. To have a vang would require room under the boom for a decent vang angle. However when reaching or running the jib can be let out while holding a good shape. (here I mean the top of the sail is parallel to the bottom and giving drive not falling to leeward. Remember the sail will be small so you need all the drive you can get.

In the end I think you will find a fractional rig boat with big main and small jib and sailed fitted with a small jib on sheets to winches in the normal way quite easy to operate even in tight tacking spots when single handed. Then if it is really light (and going to stay that way ) you can fit a bigger jib. Of course a tiller extension and an auto helm will also help.
good luck olewill
 
A good idea but don't fret if you can't find one. My old boat (8.5m, masthead rig) was easy to tack and gybe singlehanded because the sheets for both sails and the tiller could all be reached without fancy footwork.

When tacking centre the main on the traveller, put the helm down, let go the 'old' sheet, heave in the new, and steer with your bum while doing it. Even easier with the luxury of an autohelm. The secret is in tacking slowly enough to get all the old and new sheet work done before the boat comes hard on the wind on the new tack and grunt work is required.

Gybing - tiller up, gybe the main, centre the tiller, run gooswinged while you settle the main on the new gybe. Then come off square, let the old genoa sheet go and pull in the new one to leeward.
 
I have a self tacking jib on my Hunter Ranger 245.
As others have mentioned it does lack drive in light conditions but I can set my scooper for this.
Makes singlehanding easy.
I also have two lines attached to the clew , allowing me to heave to easily.
The only problem I find is that when the sail is hardened to the wind , it also gets unable to swing over when the boat goes through the wind , sometimes lubricating the track helps or easing the sail off a bit before tacking.
One consequence of a small jib is a big main. I struglle with mine with the autohelm on. Gets difficult to trim. You can steer the boat with the autohelm on by trimming the main sheet. Maybe there's something wrong with my autohelm ?
 
I thought a self-tacker would be the bees knees for singlehanding until I used one. The lack of drive should not be underestimated, particularly on any course other than hard to windward. As soon as you ease the sheet the top twists off completely and often is flapping about from around a beam reach.

For a really big boat I could still see the advantages outweight the disadvantages but for <9m I wouldn't bother.
 
I had a Hunter 265 and a Hunter Pilot 27(both the same hull) with a self tacker.Personally I prefer a traditional sized genoa(I have a 130% genny on my Moody 31 which is easy to tack) As has been said it is useful when short tacking say up a river,but is underpowered to windward in anything below F3 ish.Going downwind you do need a chute and if near to a dead run the constant slatting of the jib from side to side can be annoying.The Hunters are good boats though and you should be able to get a 27/272 for around your budget.Hunters are economical with their length descriptions as both the 265 and the pilot27 have hull lengths of 7.625m.The rest of the length is stemhead and rudder.
 
I think part of the problem with retrofitting one is going to be balance... I would have thought that under moderate conditions you would see a shedload of weather helm...
 
photodog said:
I think part of the problem with retrofitting one is going to be balance... I would have thought that under moderate conditions you would see a shedload of weather helm...
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I would think so!
Especially in moderate winds where the main is not flattened as much as possible.

I have sailed an RS800 dinghy which has a self tacking jib. Great when it all goes to plan, a bit of a menace when you get into irons though!
You do lose the ability to back the jib slightly when tacking in awkward chop.
A 'blade' jib with very little overlap and conventional sheeting might be nicer IMHO, but each to his own.
 
we have had hunter 272 with selftacker and genoa and now have dehler 34 again with self tacker and genoa - nice to have the flexibility and when in right mood have swapped genoa for st in stronger winds as performs better than reefed genoa and also swapped genoa for self tacker when single handing as without question it makes the boat easier to sail shorthand- having the selftacker we regard as an advantage but not an essential
 
ditchcrawler said:
I had a Hunter 265 and a Hunter Pilot 27(both the same hull) with a self tacker.Personally I prefer a traditional sized genoa(I have a 130% genny on my Moody 31 which is easy to tack) As has been said it is useful when short tacking say up a river,but is underpowered to windward in anything below F3 ish.Going downwind you do need a chute and if near to a dead run the constant slatting of the jib from side to side can be annoying.The Hunters are good boats though and you should be able to get a 27/272 for around your budget.Hunters are economical with their length descriptions as both the 265 and the pilot27 have hull lengths of 7.625m.The rest of the length is stemhead and rudder.
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I also had a 265 and the self tacker was great when short tacking up the Orwell or the Crouch but often a pain in the neck at other times. Having a 'Scooper' on board helps overcome the disadvantages once the wind on aft of the beam. The actuall hull length might not be that long but Hunter did manage to get a lot of useable volume from that hull design.

My current boat has a 106% blade jib which with self tailing winches is almost as easy to handle as the self tacker but provides a bit more sail area and keeps its shape better once off the wind. Which seems a good compromise to me.
 
Twister_Ken said:
My old boat (8.5m, masthead rig) was easy to tack and gybe singlehanded because the sheets for both sails and the tiller could all be reached without fancy footwork.
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I am sure that is the single most important factor for single-handing. Now that just about every new boat has a monster wheel I have no idea how I would manage to sail one ....especially when the autohelm chooses to give up which is not exactly an unknown occurrence.

Vic
 
VicMallows said:
I am sure that is the single most important factor for single-handing. Now that just about every new boat has a monster wheel I have no idea how I would manage to sail one ....especially when the autohelm chooses to give up which is not exactly an unknown occurrence.

Vic
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Well, I'm learning. Traveller and mainsheet are just ahead of the monster wheel, self-tailing sheet winches about 3 feet further forward on the coamings.

Steer from in front of the wheel, and it's not too difficult. However, I have more than once turned the wheel the wrong way. It's a mistake you soon spot though!
 
Fortunately monster wheels won't be a problem on a 23 to 27 foot c.£17000 boat but I take the point - and I believe I've been put off going for a particular type just because it has a s/t jib. So many tks to all for the discussion and giving me a broader view.
 
jakeroyd said:
I have a self tacking jib on my Hunter Ranger 245.
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Me too. Great little boat
.......The only problem I find is that when the sail is hardened to the wind , it also gets unable to swing over when the boat goes through the wind , sometimes lubricating the track helps or easing the sail off a bit before tacking.
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Must be a common problem I think. Another thing that can help is to lubricate the "axles" of the wheels on the car, I use the device that replaces ink in computer cartridges! a bit like a hypodermic, fill with a few drops of 3 in 1 oil, needs re-doing every couple of months
One consequence of a small jib is a big main. I struglle with mine with the autohelm on. Gets difficult to trim. You can steer the boat with the autohelm on by trimming the main sheet. Maybe there's something wrong with my autohelm ?
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probably not, the autohelm I use is not as clever as a decent helmsman and I think this is typical, the handbook says you may need to reduce sail early. Letting the main sheet out a bit also helps, reduces weather helm and keeps the boat more upright.

If the Hunter 245 is typical, most of the benefit comes (in my view) from having a small easily handled jib rather than having one that doesn't need tending during a tack. The smaller jib also means that you don't need to reef it so early, and when you do, you have a very small jib rather than a baggy set of drawers. Main advantage, though, is that you can see where you are going. As has been pointed out, it tends to go noisily from one side to the other and back when running, and the best solution is just to roll it up!
 
I had a self-tacking jib on an Etap26i, I'm not a good enough sailor (or ever in too much of a hurry) to notice any performance drop :o), all I can say though is for short-handed sailing it was fantastic... helm over, sort out the main, job done. The boat was designed for it from the outset, so the 'traveller rail' had a mechanical slider (sorry, don't know the correct terms), so that you could hove to by sliding one over to the lee side 'trapping' the jib, helm over and there you go... it's just that you had to leave the cockpit to do it as part of a planned manoeuvre.
 
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