pollard_mike
New Member
I'm thinking of installing a self tacking headsail on a first 21.7. The jib is on a furler. I want to use it while sailing solo and revert back to normal jib operation when with a crew. Anybody any ideas.
Self Tacking head sail
- Thread starter pollard_mike
- Start date
aluijten
Well-Known Member
I've got one on my boat. It works great, but you do loose some speed because of it, especially in light winds. In strong winds it wonderfull, altough it feels a bit too lazy at times. Tacking is nothing more then changing course. I use it only when anticipating F4-F5 winds.
Basiclly tacking a genua in light winds is pretty easy, even if sailing alone.
Arno
Basiclly tacking a genua in light winds is pretty easy, even if sailing alone.
Arno
matt1
Well-Known Member
Hi
Not too sure what your question is so forgive the random ramblings below!
I have a self tacking headsail and like anything it has it's pros and cons. You would definately want to retain your genoa I would suggest. I use the ST jib in the Solent where it is excellent - especially for quick tacks to get out the way of boats / shipping etc. It's also an amazing sail upwind in fresh to strong conditions where it's flatness and high aspect ratio give it tremendous power. When it's really windy I can sail upwind under headsail alone. The boat tacks so qucikly that you lose little speed and I reckon for short tacking that it is quicker than my bigger genoa as a result.
However off wind it's not so good and tends to slam from one side to the other unless you have lines on the track to lock it. You can also use these lines to lock it off to heave too or just to lock the track when at anchor etc (the track can be noisy). Off the wind you really want to use a genoa or an asymetric.
I opted not to have a UV strip so that a) it would force me to take the headsail off each time - thereby making sure I also used the other genoa rather than getting lazy and just sticking with the ST jib and B) the uv strip is a large area of such a small sail and personally I didn't want that disturbing the airsflow / shape / weight of such a high aspect sail.
Visibility is improved with the ST jib in confined waters (again, it suits the Solent well!)
Not too sure what your question is so forgive the random ramblings below!
I have a self tacking headsail and like anything it has it's pros and cons. You would definately want to retain your genoa I would suggest. I use the ST jib in the Solent where it is excellent - especially for quick tacks to get out the way of boats / shipping etc. It's also an amazing sail upwind in fresh to strong conditions where it's flatness and high aspect ratio give it tremendous power. When it's really windy I can sail upwind under headsail alone. The boat tacks so qucikly that you lose little speed and I reckon for short tacking that it is quicker than my bigger genoa as a result.
However off wind it's not so good and tends to slam from one side to the other unless you have lines on the track to lock it. You can also use these lines to lock it off to heave too or just to lock the track when at anchor etc (the track can be noisy). Off the wind you really want to use a genoa or an asymetric.
I opted not to have a UV strip so that a) it would force me to take the headsail off each time - thereby making sure I also used the other genoa rather than getting lazy and just sticking with the ST jib and B) the uv strip is a large area of such a small sail and personally I didn't want that disturbing the airsflow / shape / weight of such a high aspect sail.
Visibility is improved with the ST jib in confined waters (again, it suits the Solent well!)
pollard_mike
New Member
What kind of system do you have and did you self install.
matt1
Well-Known Member
All bits came with the boat (kit) I'm afraid but here is how it was done anyway....
There's a Pre-bent harken track that is anchored at each end with bespoke end brackets. End brackets are through-bolted to each side of coachroof. The curved track is then through- bolted in the middle as well. There is a car on the track (obviously!) and attached to this is the bitter end of the jib sheet which then goes round a block on the clew of the jib, back to the block on the car and then up the mast. There's a sheeve in the mast which the sheet goes round before coming down the mast and into a block at the mast heel and back to the clutches on the coachroof via halliard organisers. Some people fit an eye on the mast before the sheeve but I'm not convincved this is needed. As I describe it there it sounds full of friction but believe it or not it's not!
If you want to add the control lines I mentioned, or "heave to lines" as some call them, then you just need some thin line on each side of the car, going round a small block and back to some kind of jammer on each side of the companionway.
There's a Pre-bent harken track that is anchored at each end with bespoke end brackets. End brackets are through-bolted to each side of coachroof. The curved track is then through- bolted in the middle as well. There is a car on the track (obviously!) and attached to this is the bitter end of the jib sheet which then goes round a block on the clew of the jib, back to the block on the car and then up the mast. There's a sheeve in the mast which the sheet goes round before coming down the mast and into a block at the mast heel and back to the clutches on the coachroof via halliard organisers. Some people fit an eye on the mast before the sheeve but I'm not convincved this is needed. As I describe it there it sounds full of friction but believe it or not it's not!
If you want to add the control lines I mentioned, or "heave to lines" as some call them, then you just need some thin line on each side of the car, going round a small block and back to some kind of jammer on each side of the companionway.
SteveA
Well-Known Member
Having just bought a 21.7 which I intend to sail by myself some of the time I would be very interested in how you get on with this idea.
Searush
Well-Known Member
Take a look at some of the tricks used by R/C model boats. They have to be self-tacking and there are some really ingenious solutions that might work on a "proper boat"
William_H
Well-Known Member
Matt1 says he has his sheet leading up the mast away from the car then back to an adjustment cleat on the cabin top in reach. It seems a little OTT when I suspect the sheet would not impede car movement if it were led straight back. I suppose it depends on how far forward of the mast the track is.
I would more consider puting the jib on a boom attached at the base of the forestay. A boom would allow far better control of the jib when running. The difficulty with a boom is getting enough room for a vang to hold it down ward. possibly a strut braced up to the forestay might work out. You could just try the boom without a vang but with a track out to the gunwhale. It is all very interesting. For me just a pipe dream though..olewill
I would more consider puting the jib on a boom attached at the base of the forestay. A boom would allow far better control of the jib when running. The difficulty with a boom is getting enough room for a vang to hold it down ward. possibly a strut braced up to the forestay might work out. You could just try the boom without a vang but with a track out to the gunwhale. It is all very interesting. For me just a pipe dream though..olewill
alant
Well-Known Member
Biggest problem, apart from losing the ability to easily 'heave too', is that self tackers are only able to tack in front of the mast, so no overlapping genoa possible.
The sail in many cases is so small, its hardly worth it.
The sail in many cases is so small, its hardly worth it.
davidbains
Well-Known Member
That's why fitting a self tacking staysail inside your high clewed genoa makes sense.
An arrangement I've been increasingly happy with.
In fact with a small self tacker you hardly need a fixed track.
A Rope track for a pulley shackled to the clew will do it. Just fit a U bolt each
side. Another pulley at the end of the rope track converts it into a sheet as well!
I agree they are of limited use off the wind.
An arrangement I've been increasingly happy with.
In fact with a small self tacker you hardly need a fixed track.
A Rope track for a pulley shackled to the clew will do it. Just fit a U bolt each
side. Another pulley at the end of the rope track converts it into a sheet as well!
I agree they are of limited use off the wind.
pollard_mike
New Member
Thanks for that Matt1 and for all the other posts.
matnoo
Well-Known Member
im a newbie... a self tacking headsail... wow! never seen one of these!
could someone send me a pic of one!
Cheers!!
Mat
could someone send me a pic of one!
Cheers!!
Mat
EdEssery
Well-Known Member
All current Hanse models have self tacking headsails as standard. See Hanse UK site for pictures.
It's better if the boat's rig is designed for self tacking from the outset, typically with a relatively large main and small fore triangle. As a rig I've found it works well - after five seasons we're moving up from a self tacking MG C27 (Contessa 27) to a Hanse.
Ed
It's better if the boat's rig is designed for self tacking from the outset, typically with a relatively large main and small fore triangle. As a rig I've found it works well - after five seasons we're moving up from a self tacking MG C27 (Contessa 27) to a Hanse.
Ed
davidwf
Well-Known Member
There is no need for a self tacker on a 21.7
I sail a First 21.7 singlehanded 90% of the time. There is absolutely no need for a self tacking headsail on the boat, the standard sail is so small there's no need to winch in at all so tacking is quick and easy.
Also the 21.7 is so fast and sensitive to sail trim the last thing in the world you want to do is ruin it with a self tacker.
Spend your money on an asymetric chute, much more useful and fun. I use that single handed as well but only in lightish winds.
I sail a First 21.7 singlehanded 90% of the time. There is absolutely no need for a self tacking headsail on the boat, the standard sail is so small there's no need to winch in at all so tacking is quick and easy.
Also the 21.7 is so fast and sensitive to sail trim the last thing in the world you want to do is ruin it with a self tacker.
Spend your money on an asymetric chute, much more useful and fun. I use that single handed as well but only in lightish winds.