seized turbocharger ad31b

[FalconSteve]

Hi all,

My port engine has been playing up since I recommissioned the boat after winter, it won't Rev above 2200 rpm under load (starboard revs to 3800 no problem).

Looking through the forum archive I found a thread which suggested that after checking air and fuel filters it might be worth checking the turbochargers.

I have just removed both air filters and to my dismay the inlet vanes will not spin with my finger on the port engine (starboard spins freely).

I'm thinking the turbocharger is knackered, but before I fork out for an exchange unit can the forum advise on any cost effective interventions that might bring it back to life?

I've read that mister muscle oven cleaner can be effective if the cause is carbon buildup. Any advise gratefully received

Steve

 

[tr7v8]

Sounds like the bearing has seized. Worth disconnecting the oil feed & checking there is an oil flow when the engine is turned over.

 

[Firefly625]

Join the club!

My yanmar engine has suffered the same. Turbo (IHI unit) currently with volvopaul and hopefully being couriered off on Monday to a refurb company.

It's a right pita at the start if the season, sorry I have no other useful insights on what you can do to free a seized unit off. But I can certainly empathise!

 

[cryan]

It is possible(with a lot of modification to pipework) to spray small amounts of cleaning fluid( usually just water) through a running T/C to help keep the blades clean. However doing so when not running or with turbo not spinning can lead to unballancing the rotor, due to uneven distribution of contaminants, which in turn will lead to failure. I would remove the T/C and get it to a specialist shop for investigation. If its just dirty they can clean it and if its a bearing failure they should be able to change them.

 

[FalconSteve]

Thanks for the quick replies. I had a feeling it v wouldn't be good news .

Does anyone have a vague idea regarding refurb costs? I believe an exchange unit is around £500+

 

[Latestarter1]

View attachment 41348
Suspect you are looking at the wrong end, compressor end rarely gives any clue, however if you take a look at the hot end will tell the whole story.

Unless you have been feeding turbo contaminated lube oil bearing is unlikely to shot on low hour marine engine.

Just think about it.....Engine shut down over winter lay up period, typical early season failure mode. All that lovely moist salt laden air eating away inside bare cast iron inducer nozzle, grows big cobs of rust. KKK turbochargers seem to employ a grade of iron which rusts whilst you are looking at it!

Drop exhaust of a healthy turbocharger and all you SHOULD see is a dark grey velvet coating.

If salt laden air has been allowed free rein, inducer will look like the one above.

 

[[2068]]

So how would we prevent that from happening?

 

[crazy4557]

Thanks for the quick replies. I had a feeling it v wouldn't be good news .

Does anyone have a vague idea regarding refurb costs? I believe an exchange unit is around £500+

Give Universal Turbos in Fordingbridge a call they will rebuild yours for around £475+vat. Will look brand new when it's returned. I've had two done by them and very happy.

 

[Beamishken]

I've seen this several times on engines that have been stood in a damp climate. The turbine wheel gets stuck on a small rust blister that has expanded during the lay up & it takes very little to stop the turbo turning

you can try a socket on the compressor wheel retaining nut & GENTLY try rocking back & forth to free off be carefull not to loosen the nut though (you can use slightly more force clockwise)

if that doesn't work remove the exhaust elbow & spray the turbine wheel with release oil in the centre of the turbine wheel there is a 12 point nut shaped boss you can fit a socket onto (boss usually has part ground away for balancing but usually enough left to get a 12 point socket on )you can try rocking from this end too but obviously be carefull not to damage the turbine wheel being too rough with it

this sounds rough but I've done it several times & the turbo has always lived afterwards you just need to be carefull & just rock carefully back & fourth once its free & the engine is run it will keep itself free with use

no doubt there will be people along soon to say I'm stupid & you'll break something but I've done this several times & its worked fine

 

[volvopaul]

Thanks for the quick replies. I had a feeling it v wouldn't be good news .

Does anyone have a vague idea regarding refurb costs? I believe an exchange unit is around £500+

The exchange price from Volvo is over £1000 plus vat.

I've just had two done, complete overhaul to each one, well under £1000 each one.

 

[macnorton]

The exchange price from Volvo is over £1000 plus vat.

I've just had two done, complete overhaul to each one, well under £1000 each one.

If it's the same as the Prima (Md 20?) I have a good one.

 

[dpb]

CR Turbos, New Milton, recommended by my Volvo mech. They will asses and quote for what's needed. Sorted mine for £300. Good service.

 

[FalconSteve]

View attachment 41348
Suspect you are looking at the wrong end, compressor end rarely gives any clue, however if you take a look at the hot end will tell the whole story.

Unless you have been feeding turbo contaminated lube oil bearing is unlikely to shot on low hour marine engine.

Just think about it.....Engine shut down over winter lay up period, typical early season failure mode. All that lovely moist salt laden air eating away inside bare cast iron inducer nozzle, grows big cobs of rust. KKK turbochargers seem to employ a grade of iron which rusts whilst you are looking at it!

Drop exhaust of a healthy turbocharger and all you SHOULD see is a dark grey velvet coating.

If salt laden air has been allowed free rein, inducer will look like the one above.

Thanks for this, I have yet to remove the exhaust manifold side, I have traveled back home to consult the workshop manual for the engine before I damage something! This is the air filter side of the turbo, if I am being honest ////it doesn't look too bad, certainly not like the photo you posted

 

[FalconSteve]

Give Universal Turbos in Fordingbridge a call they will rebuild yours for around £475+vat. Will look brand new when it's returned. I've had two done by them and very happy.

Thanks for the recommendation, that price is much cheaper than the refurb price volvopaul has quoted.

 

[FalconSteve]

I've seen this several times on engines that have been stood in a damp climate. The turbine wheel gets stuck on a small rust blister that has expanded during the lay up & it takes very little to stop the turbo turning

you can try a socket on the compressor wheel retaining nut & GENTLY try rocking back & forth to free off be carefull not to loosen the nut though (you can use slightly more force clockwise)

if that doesn't work remove the exhaust elbow & spray the turbine wheel with release oil in the centre of the turbine wheel there is a 12 point nut shaped boss you can fit a socket onto (boss usually has part ground away for balancing but usually enough left to get a 12 point socket on )you can try rocking from this end too but obviously be carefull not to damage the turbine wheel being too rough with it

this sounds rough but I've done it several times & the turbo has always lived afterwards you just need to be carefull & just rock carefully back & fourth once its free & the engine is run it will keep itself free with use

no doubt there will be people along soon to say I'm stupid & you'll break something but I've done this several times & its worked fine

Thanks Ken, I'll give this a go next weekend and report back, I doubt that I can cause any more damage by trying these steps, I will heed the advice regarding gentle rocking, what will happen if I turn it too far?

 

[volvopaul]

Thanks for the recommendation, that price is much cheaper than the refurb price volvopaul has quoted.

The price I quoted was a full refurb which was the whole turbo with new parts. Some companies just fit slip rings and bead blast the rest to make it look new. The company I use do a full job that way it can be guaranteed, no one will warranty a unit that hasn't had all new rotating parts.

 

[FalconSteve]

The exchange price from Volvo is over £1000 plus vat.

I've just had two done, complete overhaul to each one, well under £1000 each one.

Ouch! I must have been looking at an American website when I saw the £500 price, I bet it was a few years old as well. Thanks for letting me know, I was contemplating the relative costs of third party rebuild versus volvo replacement, now I think I will stick with the third party option.

 

[FalconSteve]

If it's the same as the Prima (Md 20?) I have a good one.

I'm not sure if they are the same, do you have the part number for the yours?

 

[FalconSteve]

CR Turbos, New Milton, recommended by my Volvo mech. They will asses and quote for what's needed. Sorted mine for £300. Good service.

This sounds attractive, I will phone them after I have tried to free the unit next weekend, thanks for the lead.

 

[Beamishken]

Thanks Ken, I'll give this a go next weekend and report back, I doubt that I can cause any more damage by trying these steps, I will heed the advice regarding gentle rocking, what will happen if I turn it too far?

as you say its damaged anyway so cant realy harm much the only thing you could damage is the turbine wheel which is what will be stuck to the case just keep an eye on the vanes to make sure they aren't bending

most turbo refurb companies will do an average turbo recon for about £3-£400 ive used AET turbos (kkk dealers good mail order service)in the past & had good results.

Turbos start to get expensive when centre cartridges & shafts are u/s because a bearing has collapsed yours should recon for around the 3-400 mark as the cartridge & the shaft will be ok

The turbine wheel is part of the shaft hence me saying be carefull not to damage it, compressor wheels aren't too expensive

As long as the shafts & housings are ok its a totally acceptable repair/recon with new seals & bearings & a rebalance all the turbo co's will return the unit blasted to look new you just have to paint it before you refit

The hard part of the excersise is finding a good turbo company you can trust