Seems to be legal but I feel cheated

[NPMR]

Having just acquired a new boat (a used one) I have started going through the systems etc.

When the owner showed me round the boat, the wide screen Raymarine GPS system had a Navionics chart chip in it. I was given a quick demo.

Now, I find that there is no chart chip and when I took this up with the broker, he told me that as it was not on the inventory specifically, I have no case to claim for it.

The genoa sheets are not there either (and some other stuff seems to be no longer there as well - but I digress) but in this case the broker says they (the genoa sheets) should be there as you can't use the boat without them, even if they're not listed specifically on the inventory. Doesn't feel wholly consistent to me.

Has anyone else had this? I feel it is like taking the light bulbs from a house, when you move - it may be legal but is it reasonable?

Do you all need to be warned?

 

[Koeketiene]

Having just acquired a new boat (a used one) I have started going through the systems etc.

When the owner showed me round the boat, the wide screen Raymarine GPS system had a Navionics chart chip in it. I was given a quick demo.

Now, I find that there is no chart chip and when I took this up with the broker, he told me that as it was not on the inventory specifically, I have no case to claim for it.

The genoa sheets are not there either (and some other stuff seems to be no longer there as well - but I digress) but in this case the broker says they (the genoa sheets) should be there as you can't use the boat without them, even if they're not listed specifically on the inventory. Doesn't feel wholly consistent to me.

Has anyone else had this? I feel it is like taking the light bulbs from a house, when you move - it may be legal but is it reasonable?

Do you all need to be warned?

Sounds like standard fare to me.
Nor does the attitude of the broker seem inconsistent to me. Genoa sheets are essential - a plotter chip is not.

 

[V1701]

Possibly worth an appeal to the better nature of the previous owner? To have it demo'd then for the chip to subsequently be removed, I'd be pee'd off for sure...

 

[macd]

I feel it is like taking the light bulbs from a house, when you move - it may be legal but is it reasonable?

I'm pretty sure taking light bulbs is actually illegal.

As to your boat, sympathies. The previous owner sounds a bit of a tu*d. Hard to suggest anything practical you might do, except put it behind you and enjoy your new boat.

 

[Seajet]

Possibly worth an appeal to the better nature of the previous owner? To have it demo'd then for the chip to subsequently be removed, I'd be pee'd off for sure...

+1

 

[Stork_III]

Possibly worth an appeal to the better nature of the previous owner? To have it demo'd then for the chip to subsequently be removed, I'd be pee'd off for sure...

+1, He may have removed it after demo for security,and forgotten all about it on hand over. You have his address from bill of sale phone or write.

 

[chris.troutner]

It would be very easy to argue that the sheets are part of the boat. They should have clearly indicated to you that they would not be coming with the boat.

The GPS card is a pain, but it's fixable.

I agree, you could probably appeal to the previous owners better nature to get the GPS card back, but not if you have to fight him to get the sheets back.

If you have to choose between the two, I'd say go for the sheets.

 

[KellysEye]

I've never seeen a boat spec with sheets and halyards on it and I bet the broker hasn't seen it either, you bought those when you agreed the price. Tell him to get them back or pay for them.

Also if the Raymarine GPS was working it should still be working, that's what you bought when you agreed the price. Tell the broker to get that back too or pay for it. Good job he didn't take the engine and mast too ;-)

It isn't legal he showed you what was on the boat and effectively stole things that you paid for. A small claims courrt should fix it if the broker doesn't.

 

[prv]

No question about the genoa sheets. Nobody would reasonably expect a boat not to include those.

The chart chip is a bit different. I would not automatically assume that that was included. I would have asked (indeed I did ask on the boat we've just bought). On our old boat that's for sale, everything on board is specifically included and we told the broker so, but I looked round a couple that included items clearly belonging to the owner and not part of the boat, so you can't assume that if it's on board when you view it's part of the sale. Reasonable to demonstrate using the card (not much of a demo otherwise) but rather cheeky not to mention at that point that it wasn't included. Perhaps he hadn't yet decided at that time?

On the plus side, when you go and buy a replacement card it will be nicely up to date. How old would the old one have been?

Pete

 

[johnphilip]

You cannot sail the boat without the genoa sheets and you cannot navigate it without the plotter charts. If the plotter is on the inventory then removing an essential part of it is not correct to me. It is not like removing a personal effect like the binoculars, it is more like taking the winch handles. Just pester the broker till he does something about it. Mutter darkly about small claims court.

 

[benjenbav]

You cannot sail the boat without the genoa sheets and you cannot navigate it without the plotter charts.

I've got some sheets of paper with pictures and symbols on them that are so realistic that I sometimes think they could be used instead of the plotter.

 

[benjenbav]

To the OP: As you say, it's like someone took the lightbulbs with them. Life's too short to lose sleep about it, imho.

 

[Woodlouse]

Personally I'd be looking to start life with a new boat with up to date charts anyway. Forget about the plotter chip, get a new one.

 

[gordmac]

I would expect someone to hold on to their paper charts when selling so why should electronic be different?

 

[[70521]]

you cannot navigate it without the plotter charts.

I've got some sheets of paper with pictures and symbols on them that are so realistic that I sometimes think they could be used instead of the plotter.

I am with the man with the sheets of paper with the pictures and symbols on them!

 

[Cymrogwyllt]

I'm pretty sure taking light bulbs is actually illegal.

When I bought my house the contract stated that all light bulbs bar one would be removed. In the event all bulbs were present and wroked. I presume that it was included as a CYA job by the legal peeps in case of a dud bulb.


Only dust in the coal store though.

 

[nimbusgb]

Genoa sheets definitely part of the sale! E charts, specifically navionics could be worth £250 or more. There is no legal position I suspect but if the boat was demoed with the charts then i'd want words with the seller. The seller sounds a bit of a ****** to me but thats just a personal opinion.

If you are selling a boat and having it shown with all the inventory aboard then I'd expect to take delivery of what was on board at the time unless the agent/vendor has stated quite clearly that x,y and z are not included.

If your bill of sale says 'as seen' then clearly what you have taken delivery of is not 'as seen'!

 

[Koeketiene]

You cannot sail the boat without the genoa sheets and you cannot navigate it without the plotter charts.

You mean to say that boats without a plotter never go anywhere?

 

[syvictoria]

I agree that the genoa sheets should be included, unless explicitly excluded in the sale agreement inventory, or perhaps even in the yacht's details.

The card is different. I think it's acceptable that was in place for demonstration purposes only and then removed prior to completion, assuming that it wasn't mentioned on any inventory. Just because a yacht has a chart table, do you expect it to have paper charts included when sold...? Is every chart plotter sold with a card included as standard...? If you answered no to these questions, then I'm sorry, but why would you assume that the card was going to be included in the sale?

 

[prv]

You cannot sail the boat without the genoa sheets and you cannot navigate it without the plotter charts.

So you're saying I shouldn't have taken my portfolio of paper charts, lovingly hand-corrected up to date, with me when we put KS up for sale?

Bugger that, charts go with the navigator, not the yacht.



I did leave a portable plotter and its chart card on board, as it happens. I took the same view as Woodlouse:

Personally I'd be looking to start life with a new boat with up to date charts anyway. Forget about the plotter chip, get a new one.

as I will probably be getting a new plotter for the new boat at some point, and there's no reason to think it will take the same cards.

Pete