Seeking Portuguese residencia - please read.

[greeny]

Firstly, before I relate the story, I need to say that this is not a request for suggestions, recriminations or challenge. I am merely telling a story of what happened to some friends of mine recently with regard to obtaining Portuguese Residencia, in order to save others from getting into the same position.

The situation is:
Bumped into an old friend and his wife yesterday. Not seen them for a couple of years,
They've retired and been here for many years but never done residency. They live on a campsite in a caravan. They decided finally that they needed to sort out their residencia.

A friend on the campsite gave them the name of a solicitor who is "specialising " in getting residencia for expats before the deadline date. At a cost of course. The solicitor told them that if they tried to do it themselves they probably wouldn't get it through before the deadline date and that they needed his help to do that. This is patently not true. They said that many of their other friends have used him and paid him to facilitate their residencia.

Back to the brunt of the story, When they went to see the solicitor he went through a raft of questions about their life and history in Portugal.
They rather stupidly admitted to having been here for several years. He then said that that was a problem and they could be liable for income tax returns and fines for not doing them. He has since been to the finances on their behalf, and opened their tax accounts and is now in the process of calculating their tax liabilities for the last number of years.

Too late to back off for them now - they're in too deep.

The likelihood is that there will be no big tax bill to pay due to the double taxation agreement and the fact that their pensions have all been correctly taxed in UK.

But, I've no doubt there will be a big solicitors bill for "sorting" it out for them, not to mention the sleepless nights and worry that elderly people can well do without.

I'm posting this because people need to be aware that the bottom feeders and scammers are out there, taking advantage of the situation by scaremongering and creating problems for innocent people to relieve them of their hard earned money.

I've since heard that there are several other "people" in town who are offering this service as "fixers" to the less well informed expats, it seems to be a growing business as the deadline approaches.

Be in no doubt. To obtain residencia you do not need the services of anyone except yourself. Turn up at you local Camara with your paperwork and tell them what you want to do. They are very well versed in the process. They have done thousands, It takes half an hour of your time once at the desk. Plus the queue to get in of course.

You do not need a solicitor or anyone else who charges you.

 

[nortada]

Firstly, before I relate the story, I need to say that this is not a request for suggestions, recriminations or challenge. I am merely telling a story of what happened to some friends of mine recently with regard to obtaining Portuguese Residencia, in order to save others from getting into the same position.

The situation is:
Bumped into an old friend and his wife yesterday. Not seen them for a couple of years,
They've retired and been here for many years but never done residency. They live on a campsite in a caravan. They decided finally that they needed to sort out their residencia.

A friend on the campsite gave them the name of a solicitor who is "specializing " in getting residencia for expats before the deadline date. At a cost of course. The solicitor told them that if they tried to do it themselves they probably wouldn't get it through before the deadline date and that they needed his help to do that. This is patently not true. They said that many of their other friends have used him and paid him to facilitate their residencia.

Back to the brunt of the story, When they went to see the solicitor he went through a raft of questions about their life and history in Portugal.
They rather stupidly admitted to having been here for several years. He then said that that was a problem and they could be liable for income tax returns and fines for not doing them. He has since been to the finances on their behalf, and opened their tax accounts and is now in the process of calculating their tax liabilities for the last number of years.

Too late to back off for them now - they're in too deep.

The likelihood is that there will be no big tax bill to pay due to the double taxation agreement and the fact that their pensions have all been correctly taxed in UK.

But, I've no doubt there will be a big solicitors bill for "sorting" it out for them, not to mention the sleepless nights and worry that elderly people can well do without.

I'm posting this because people need to be aware that the bottom feeders and scammers are out there, taking advantage of the situation by scaremongering and creating problems for innocent people to relieve them of their hard earned money.

I've since heard that there are several other "people" in town who are offering this service as "fixers" to the less well informed expats, it seems to be a growing business as the deadline approaches.

Be in no doubt. To obtain residencia you do not need the services of anyone except yourself. Turn up at you local Camara with your paperwork and tell them what you want to do. They are very well versed in the process. They have done thousands, It takes half an hour of your time once at the desk. Plus the queue to get in of course.

You do not need a solicitor or anyone else who charges you.

As this is so important to many and lawyers charging appears to be a prevalent practice, possibly the moderators would consider making it a stickie?

Thanks Greeny, this not a suggestion, recrimination or challenge.

Rather confirmation that there is little or no delay in obtaining temporary residency at a number of local council offices.

The 4 page application form is in both Portuguese and English and is available at the local council offices. It is very easy to complete. Cost €15 per person.

The application form can also be down loaded from here:- The 4 Page Form To Apply For Portuguese Residencia. Sorry the rest of the link has become a bit dated.

PM me if I can be of help and I am free.?

 

[Seastoke]

Firstly, before I relate the story, I need to say that this is not a request for suggestions, recriminations or challenge. I am merely telling a story of what happened to some friends of mine recently with regard to obtaining Portuguese Residencia, in order to save others from getting into the same position.

The situation is:
Bumped into an old friend and his wife yesterday. Not seen them for a couple of years,
They've retired and been here for many years but never done residency. They live on a campsite in a caravan. They decided finally that they needed to sort out their residencia.

A friend on the campsite gave them the name of a solicitor who is "specialising " in getting residencia for expats before the deadline date. At a cost of course. The solicitor told them that if they tried to do it themselves they probably wouldn't get it through before the deadline date and that they needed his help to do that. This is patently not true. They said that many of their other friends have used him and paid him to facilitate their residencia.

Back to the brunt of the story, When they went to see the solicitor he went through a raft of questions about their life and history in Portugal.
They rather stupidly admitted to having been here for several years. He then said that that was a problem and they could be liable for income tax returns and fines for not doing them. He has since been to the finances on their behalf, and opened their tax accounts and is now in the process of calculating their tax liabilities for the last number of years.

Too late to back off for them now - they're in too deep.

The likelihood is that there will be no big tax bill to pay due to the double taxation agreement and the fact that their pensions have all been correctly taxed in UK.

But, I've no doubt there will be a big solicitors bill for "sorting" it out for them, not to mention the sleepless nights and worry that elderly people can well do without.

I'm posting this because people need to be aware that the bottom feeders and scammers are out there, taking advantage of the situation by scaremongering and creating problems for innocent people to relieve them of their hard earned money.

I've since heard that there are several other "people" in town who are offering this service as "fixers" to the less well informed expats, it seems to be a growing business as the deadline approaches.

Be in no doubt. To obtain residencia you do not need the services of anyone except yourself. Turn up at you local Camara with your paperwork and tell them what you want to do. They are very well versed in the process. They have done thousands, It takes half an hour of your time once at the desk. Plus the queue to get in of course.

You do not need a solicitor or anyone else who charges you.

Why do you think it ok to live in a country and not pay tax . Shame on you .

 

[stranded]

So local solicitor says you have been behaving illegally for years, best sort it out, is a scammer and bottom feeder? The transgressers, poor innocent victim? A moral parallel universe?

 

[Clancy Moped]

So local solicitor says you have been behaving illegally for years, best sort it out, is a scammer and bottom feeder? The transgressers, poor innocent victim? A moral parallel universe?

Quite agree, bit like holding a driving licence with insurance that wont stand up if an an accident occurs.

 

[25931]

Quite agree, bit like holding a driving licence with insurance that wont stand up if an an accident occurs.

The regular back-biters as usual. There are many Brits in Portugal who have no idea that they are supposed to register after a certain period. How would they know if no one told them ? I was never informed by the British authorities and that was before the EU. Many believe that the EU gives them the right to live anywhere they please. So show a little humanity if you can and respect Greeny for trying to inform innocent people who have no way of knowing.

 

[nortada]

The OP posted this thread requesting that it served as a warning and requested no suggestions, recriminations or challenges.

It is a pity this cannot be respected but to put the record straight, if you read the post you will see there was no attempt at tax evasion or illegal practise. Rather, following advice from the British Embassy (Lisbon), these people were attempting to regularise their position and register for Portuguese residence, which as citizens of the EU, they were entitled to.

As there is tax treaty between the 2 countries income taxed in one country, is not liable to taxation in the other. These peoples’ pensions were tax in the UK so they have no tax liability in Portugal.

 

[nortada]

The regular back-biters as usual. There are many Brits in Portugal who have no idea that they are supposed to register after a certain period. How would they know if no one told them ? I was never informed by the British authorities and that was before the EU. Many believe that the EU gives them the right to live anywhere they please. So show a little humanity if you can and respect Greeny for trying to inform innocent people who have no way of knowing.

The requirement to register, within 30 days, after 3 months contiguous, is not confined to Portugal but exists in many other EU countries.

A possible difference is, when attending the local government offices in Portugal to register, you are also given 5 years temporary residency, in other EU countries (Spain etc.) you register with the police. Not sure if you get residencyOthers may advise.

It might also be worth highlighting that ALL visitors, not just non-EU residents are required to register.

Wonder how many members of the EU are complying

In Portugal, up to a €1,500 fine if you don’t.?

 

[greeny]

So local solicitor says you have been behaving illegally for years, best sort it out, is a scammer and bottom feeder? The transgressers, poor innocent victim? A moral parallel universe?

At 750 euros per person solely for residencia and the lie that they could not get it themselves within the timeframe, I'm not sure what else I could have called it.
Take the information I offer or ignore it if you like.
Please don't make judgement on my friends who you don't even know.
I posted this story with some reluctance as I knew there were people like you around. Hence the suffix to the story.
I expected negativity and criticism.
You have not disappointed me.

 

[Clancy Moped]

The regular back-biters as usual. There are many Brits in Portugal who have no idea that they are supposed to register after a certain period. How would they know if no one told them ? I was never informed by the British authorities and that was before the EU. Many believe that the EU gives them the right to live anywhere they please. So show a little humanity if you can and respect Greeny for trying to inform innocent people who have no way of knowing.

I have never moved to a different country without checking what I have to do in advance, not to do so is plain moronic, its your responsibility.

 

[jordanbasset]

I have never moved to a different country without checking what I have to do in advance, not to do so is plain moronic, its your responsibility.

Agree, although I do know a lot of Brits who live in Spain 'under the radar', or rather I should say used to as many are now registering
They all knew they should anyway, but made the decision not to, to avoid any tax complications etc. Some were also working under the radar

 

[Clancy Moped]

Agree, although I do know a lot of Brits who live in Spain 'under the radar', or rather I should say used to as many are now registering
They all knew they should anyway, but made the decision not to, to avoid any tax complications etc. Some were also working under the radar

Not for much longer. ?

 

[greeny]

I have never moved to a different country without checking what I have to do in advance, not to do so is plain moronic, its your responsibility.

So can you tell me the requirements for living in Limbo.

 

[Clancy Moped]

So can you tell me the requirements for living in Limbo.

A sense of right and wrong.

 

[Graham376]

Why do you think it ok to live in a country and not pay tax . Shame on you .

No, shame on you for not understanding the reason for the posting. The point being that to register with the Finances takes a few minutes and is free and to obtain residence costs €15. The bottom feeders are frightening people into using their very expensive services.

As far as tax is concerned, the law says annual returns should be made but, when you go and ask the Finances (which we did) they point out there's a double tax agreement with UK and, if you have no income here, there's no point in filing zero value returns. It appears this guy's tactics are to file countless years of unnecessary returns for which he will of course be charging his hourly rate.

 

[nortada]

Agree, although I do know a lot of Brits who live in Spain 'under the radar', or rather I should say used to as many are now registering
They all knew they should anyway, but made the decision not to, to avoid any tax complications etc. Some were also working under the radar

Am I right that in Spain, you register with the police but get residency from the junta?

As we have a family place in Spain, I am thinking of getting Spanish residency before the end of the year.

 

[stranded]

At 750 euros per person solely for residencia and the lie that they could not get it themselves within the timeframe, I'm not sure what else I could have called it.
Take the information I offer or ignore it if you like.
Please don't make judgement on my friends who you don't even know.
I posted this story with some reluctance as I knew there were people like you around. Hence the suffix to the story.
I expected negativity and criticism.
You have not disappointed me.

Perhaps if your desire is simply to inform you would do well to stick to the facts. If in the process you disparage a whole class of people then you should not be surprised if others take issue with you.

I make no judgement on your friends except by your account it appears they approached the solicitor for help; if they are as uninformed as you imply he possibly quite reasonably concluded they would struggle to sort things out themselves in time; they have not followed the law; they instructed the solicitor and there is no suggestion he has done anything more than his job. People have to take responsibility for their own decisions.

 

[jordanbasset]

Am I right that in Spain, you register with the police but get residency from the junta?

As we have a family place in Spain, I am thinking of getting Spanish residency before the end of the year.

From speaking to people you need to fill a form on line and submit various documents, including passport, proof or residence in Spain and proof you have health care provision and sufficient income etc.
If you cannot use the on line form you can make an appointment in person at the local immigration office , (having printed off and completed the form) which I am told for Javea is in the Police Station in nearby Denia. I think even if you do the form on line you still have to go to the immigration office
I would add I never went through with it myself following advice from a solicitor I would need to spend 6 months in Spain or lose the residency

 

[nortada]

From speaking to people you need to fill a form on line and submit various documents, including passport, proof or residence in Spain and proof you have health care provision and sufficient income etc.
If you cannot use the on line form you can make an appointment in person at the local immigration office , (having printed off and completed the form) which I am told for Javea is in the Police Station in nearby Denia. I think even if you do the form on line you still have to go to the immigration office
I would add I never went through with it myself following advice from a solicitor I would need to spend 6 months in Spain or lose the residency

Thanks for this.

Six months in Spain or lose the residency, well that would rule me out.

As there is no minimum time limit in the UK, I suppose duel residency would still be possible?

 

[greeny]

Perhaps if your desire is simply to inform you would do well to stick to the facts. If in the process you disparage a whole class of people then you should not be surprised if others take issue with you.

I make no judgement on your friends except by your account it appears they approached the solicitor for help; if they are as uninformed as you imply he possibly quite reasonably concluded they would struggle to sort things out themselves in time; they have not followed the law; they instructed the solicitor and there is no suggestion he has done anything more than his job. People have to take responsibility for their own decisions.

Thank you for your input. I think I got your message.
I'm not arguing with you. I'll let others form their own opinions on your posts.