Secondary Bilge Pump connected to galley outlet

Captain Haddock

Captain Haddock

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Hi everyone!

I'm looking to the wisdom of the panel for this bilge query.

I've got a primary bilge pump already that's manual and has it's own dedicated outlet above the water line and is operated from the cockpit.

I've also got enough spare pipe, a freebie Rule 500, a separate automatic switch and a spare one way valve from a project from a previous boat.

I don't want to tap into the primary bilge pump outlet for this as the Rule 500 has a smaller diameter pipe (19mm) than the big manual (38mm I think) as I like the idea of having a single dedicated bilge pump.

I'm thinking of connecting the small rule 500 to the 19mm pipe, placing the one way valve near the pump and creating a loop that's connected to the galley outlet via a diverter valve. By using the diverter I prevent any water coming back into the sink. The loop checks any errant water flow and failing that I've got the one way valve as my last line of defence.

By the way the galley outlet is below the waterline and currently only has a seacock on it and no loop (seacock closed when underway).

This secondary bilge pump is only for keeping the bilge dry whilst I'm away from the boat that's it. For anything serious I use the manual big boy bilge pump.

I think it's a valid approach as I really don't want yet another hole in my hull. In addition, as I have a low freeboard whatever tack I'm on with the outlet present will have the same problem of water coming up the pipe. I did think of feeding the outlet to the cockpit.

However, there are two outlets one is on the deck going to below the waterline. The others are at the base of the seats these are above the waterline but not by much and may suffer the same problem of water coming back or being added into the bilge.

What does the panel think?
 
Last edited:
Captain Haddock said:
Hi everyone!

I'm looking to the wisdom of the panel for this bilge query.

I've got a primary bilge pump already that's manual and has it's own dedicated outlet above the water line and is operated from the cockpit.

I've also got enough spare pipe, a freebie Rule 500, a separate automatic switch and a spare one way valve from a project from a previous boat.

I don't want to tap into the primary bilge pump outlet for this as the Rule 500 has a smaller diameter pipe (19mm) than the big manual (38mm I think) as I like the idea of having a single dedicated bilge pump.

I'm thinking of connecting the small rule 500 to the 19mm pipe, placing the one way valve near the pump and creating a loop that's connected to the galley outlet via a diverter valve. By using the diverter I prevent any water coming back into the sink. The loop checks any errant water flow and failing that I've got the one way valve as my last line of defence.

By the way the galley outlet is below the waterline and currently only has a seacock on it and no loop (seacock closed when underway).

This secondary bilge pump is only for keeping the bilge dry whilst I'm away from the boat that's it. For anything serious I use the manual big boy bilge pump.

I think it's a valid approach as I really don't want yet another hole in my hull. In addition, as I have a low freeboard whatever tack I'm on with the outlet present will have the same problem of water coming up the pipe. I did think of feeding the outlet to the cockpit.

However, there are two outlets one is on the deck going to below the waterline. The others are at the base of the seats these are above the waterline but not by much and may suffer the same problem of water coming back or being added into the bilge.

What does the panel think?
Click to expand...

the pressure from the pump is likely to cause water to rise up into the sink.

i made up a 38 x 38 x 12 m/m tee with a 90 deg 12 m/m elbow (pointing up stream) inserted into the manual pump pipe on the down side of the high loop into the skin fitting.

hope that is clear :rolleyes:
 
IMHO bilge pumps should be independent.

BUT it depends what you are using it for.
Is it to be automatic? perhaps to deal with rain water?, in which case it will need to operate unattended, without switching diverter valves etc.
Or is it for crisis use, in which case a diverter valve on the sink outlet is fine, it will never be used unattended, so back flow when the oneway valve gets a cornflake in it won't sink the boat.

I'm with RORC. Every serious yot needs two independent, manual pumps as a minimum.

Bear in mind that the flow rate of Rule type pumps drops fast when working against a head of water or a long hose.
 
I think leaving the sink outlet seacock open while you're away from the boat just so you can use it for an automatic bilge pump is daft; where would you be if that seacock sprung a leak?

How about running the outlet into your cockpit and let the water run out the cockpit drains? Might be a bit messy but avoids the unwanted through-hull.
 
In had a similar dilemma on my last boat.

I never had any significant amount of water in the bilges but, being b/k with no central sump, even a little bit of water would slosh around and the manual pump did not get it out.

To remove the last few cc's, I installed a rule pump, and when needed, I pumped it into a bucket and thus avoided the complications of extra outlets, y- joints, non-return valves etc
 
I have to agree that an unattended pump needs to go to a hull fitting above the waterline. if you have a suitable outlet, you should tee into that.

Rob.
 
While others have valid points about leaving a seacock open at the mooring I see no difference between this and the cockpit drains which are open all the time. I believe that an automatic pump as you propose is an excellent idea and has the ability to save untold damage. I have just fitted a similar arrangement! the detail looks good to me.

Yoda
 
yoda said:
While others have valid points about leaving a seacock open at the mooring I see no difference between this and the cockpit drains which are open all the time. I believe that an automatic pump as you propose is an excellent idea and has the ability to save untold damage. I have just fitted a similar arrangement! the detail looks good to me.

Yoda
Click to expand...

All the cockpit drains that I'm aware of are above the waterline; they are effectively like gutters on your roof and stop water from the outside getting in. A very different thing indeed.
 
agurney said:
All the cockpit drains that I'm aware of are above the waterline; they are effectively like gutters on your roof and stop water from the outside getting in. A very different thing indeed.
Click to expand...

Cockpit drains on most boats exit below the waterline; it's only on newer boats with shallower cockpits and possibly open transoms that they come out above the water. The usual setup is a couple of plugholes in the cockpit sole, a pair of seacocks in the bottom of the hull, and some stout hose between the two. And as Yoda says, these seacocks have to stay open when the boat is unattended.

Pete
 
I believe each bilge pump should have its own dedicated outlet, not shared with another bilge pump or complicated by sharing it with a sink outlet.

I agree with most bilge pump manufacturers who recommend there not be any non-return valves in the outlet. They reduce flow by a significant amount.

A Rule 500 is a maintenance pump, not for crisis use - well for a very small crisis maybe.:)

My boat also came with a manual pump only, operated from the cockpit.

My solution for maintenance was a Rule 500 automatic pump and I installed a non-return valve immediately after the pump. The exit is in the cockpit, just under seat level and directly over a cockpit drain. A hose takes the water down to an inch or so above the drain. If I am sailing I know immediately when the pump is active.

I am installing another pump a bit higher and with more capacity and without the non-return valve. It will have a dedicated outlet in the transom with a high loop just before the exit point.
 
mitiempo said:
I believe each bilge pump should have its own dedicated outlet, not shared with another bilge pump or complicated by sharing it with a sink outlet.

I agree with most bilge pump manufacturers who recommend there not be any non-return valves in the outlet. They reduce flow by a significant amount.

A Rule 500 is a maintenance pump, not for crisis use - well for a very small crisis maybe.:)

My boat also came with a manual pump only, operated from the cockpit.

My solution for maintenance was a Rule 500 automatic pump and I installed a non-return valve immediately after the pump. The exit is in the cockpit, just under seat level and directly over a cockpit drain. A hose takes the water down to an inch or so above the drain. If I am sailing I know immediately when the pump is active.

I am installing another pump a bit higher and with more capacity and without the non-return valve. It will have a dedicated outlet in the transom with a high loop just before the exit point.
Click to expand...

Looking at your boat, it looks modern, why do you have water getting in?
My last boat, we used to get a significant amount down the inside of the mast. It made more sense to deal with that at source than to let it run around the bilge.
Some other boats I sail are wooden and leak a bit, bilge pumps are a serious business. A rule pump for during the week and two manual pumps for racing are the norm. Most yachts should never need their bilge pumps.
We did have a minor rain leak and a part-time dribble from the shaft, a big syringe is good for dealing with this amount of H2O. If you can keep the bilge dry, the boat certainly smells a lot better.
 
Fairly modern - CS27 designed by Ray Wall when he was still at Camper & Nicholson. Very similar to the C&N 30 but a bit smaller.

I don't really have water getting in except when I overfill the water tank - the fill is on deck above the anchor locker and the vent is in the locker. It drains to the bilge. I live aboard so I fill the tank regularly.

That will be changed. I am going to remove the fill and vent and glass the bottom of the anchor locker, drilling a hole at the bottom to make it self draining through the hull.

My boat only had a manual pump in the cockpit for the first 31 years of its life but I think a good bilge pumping system is good to have. It also lets you wash the bilge out occasionally to clean.

Like fire extinguishers you don't need it until you need it.:)
 
prv said:
Cockpit drains on most boats exit below the waterline; it's only on newer boats with shallower cockpits and possibly open transoms that they come out above the water. The usual setup is a couple of plugholes in the cockpit sole, a pair of seacocks in the bottom of the hull, and some stout hose between the two. And as Yoda says, these seacocks have to stay open when the boat is unattended.

Pete
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call my 1970 Vega 'newer'.
 
mitiempo said:
Fairly modern - CS27 designed by Ray Wall when he was still at Camper & Nicholson. Very similar to the C&N 30 but a bit smaller.

I don't really have water getting in except when I overfill the water tank - the fill is on deck above the anchor locker and the vent is in the locker. It drains to the bilge. I live aboard so I fill the tank regularly.

That will be changed. I am going to remove the fill and vent and glass the bottom of the anchor locker, drilling a hole at the bottom to make it self draining through the hull.

My boat only had a manual pump in the cockpit for the first 31 years of its life but I think a good bilge pumping system is good to have. It also lets you wash the bilge out occasionally to clean.

Like fire extinguishers you don't need it until you need it.:)
Click to expand...

That makes sense.
Most places you can't make a habit of pumping the bilge if there's any engine oil, and there's usually a bit in real life. On my last yacht, the bilge pump which drew from under the engine was strictly for emergencies only. I found it easier to clean the bilge with a bucket and sponge.

I do have a rule bilge pump mounted on a 5ft length of rigid plastic tube, with long wires for the aux socket. I use it for deck washing, but it would also serve in a crisis. You can really see the flow drop off if you make it lift water the full 5 feet.
For emergency use, I've wondered about a mains submersible pump as I now have an inverter. A lot more flow rate per buck. It would also be good for sluicing the bird poo off the deck! (and testing cockpit drains!)
 
As always the ybw forumites have come back with some great answers!

Instead of tapping into the galley I'm going to go for the cockpit exit and drill a new outlet into the cockpit.

I like the idea of seeing if it is running when underway as mitiempo has done.

This pump is purely a maintenance pump and will never rely on it as a primary pump. My boat is an old boat so there are the usual leaks that I'm slowly solving as I find them.

This thread has really helped me. Thank you everyone!
 
Make sure the cockpit exit is high enough that it doesn't let water below if there is any in the cockpit. Mine is just under the seat level with a hose down to just above the drain.
 
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