Second-hand yacht market: are prices going up or down?

[LadyViolet]

Is anyone out there tracking the market for second-hand yachts in Europe (including UK)? I would be interested to know whether over the past 3-4 years prices have been going up, down, or stable.

It seems to me that with the weakness of the continental European economies over that period, prices should have been drifting down. Or do yacht prices tend to track house prices -- in which case they may have been going up steadily in line with UK and French property values.

Does anyone maintain an index, or database for standard yacht types?

 

[Mirelle]

An interesting question, but I suspect you may have to define it in terms of market segements.

It is often said that the superyacht market is recession proof; multi-millionaire's toys are quite outside normal economics.

But once we get down to normal boats, I suspect that there are few international sales. Most boats stay in the country that they were owned in when new, and few buyers consciously look overseas for a secondhand boat, because the gear and systems may be unfamiliar to them and they may be concerned about import duty issues. That being so, the European and US economies may not have much effect on the UK market, and vice versa.

Within the UK market, many people say that the availability of very reasonably priced new boats from Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria and Legend/Hunter has depressed the prices of older boats.

So far as downright old boats (like mine!) are concerned this market is very thin and hardly moves at all -it has been ever thus.

 

[LadyViolet]

I am referring to the core 32-40ft AWB market, 15 years old and younger.

I have been looking at some boats in the 38-40ft range on brokers' web-sites and have noticed that continental European boats are frequently appearing on their lists. With the euro providing easier price comparisons across national borders I would expect prices of UK-based boats to be affected.

 

[fireball]

Looking at a 10yr old 30'er I had occaision to view an old(er) PBO from '97 ... the price for the boat was comparible to the price we paid last year. So, judging by that it has just gone down by inflation !! (we'll forget the extras that had been fitted then! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

 

[FullCircle]

Cheaper European?
Almost certainly. But consider the faff of going abroad to see a bag of nails in a foreign harbour, instead of just down the road. Multiply this a few times, add in the perceived uncertainty of foreign surveyors, commercial terms, cost of repatriating boat to UK, and it looks marginal. If however you are going to keep your boat in Spain, then why not buy one already there? Makes senses then.

I don't think there is any doubt that good condition boats are a little cheaper, but poorly specced or maintained boats get left on the shelf until placed in the bargain bucket by the desperate owners. As GRP boats are not dying, there are an ever increasing amount of them to go round, and they are bargain basement now compared to their cost 15 years ago.

Having said that I got 6k for my 1979 22 footer this year, but it was immaculate, and I did have to wait 5 months.

There seems to be a bouyant market for my Jeanneau, I am not disappointed at the potential resale (= price advertised-dream on factor) of my boat, Jen SO35, if I ever got rid of it.

 

[asj1]

When I was looking a couple of years ago for particular types of boat I did soem research through the private ads in PBO and YM by simply putting the year, location, date of mag and price on a spreadhsheet. I had about four years magazines at the time.
This was interesting because by including the phone numberr of the vendor you could track how many months particular boats were fpor sale and if the price was reduced, in that way you could eliminate the first adverts at £40k and only include the third adveret at £36k.
My conclusion was that prices generaly were not going down, but as each boat got a year older it lost £1,000 - £1,500 in value ( this wa sfor boats in the £25k to £40k range

 

[Mirelle]

On that basis, my boat is now worth minus £67,000 or so. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Actually, she cost: £796 in 1937

Was sold for: £2,000 in 1951

Was sold for: £ 15,500 in 1984

The increase over the first 14 years is probably more to do with the shrinking £ than anything else. Surveyor said 50K the other day, but that's just a valuation, not a sale. In real terms, so far as anyone can say, I guess she is now worth a quarter of what she was worth when new.

 

[moondancer]

I think prices are going down. I sold a Sonata last year for around 1.5K less than I paid for it 2 years ago - having spent a fair bit on improving the boat. At the time I bought it it was quite reasonably priced.

 

[Birdseye]

I've sold my boat and been in the market for a new one, talking to lots of new boat sale brokers. They all say very much the same thing for the BenJeannBavHanses - you can expect to lose the vat in year 1, and then perhaps 5% a year up to about 5 years old. Interesting comment since they are trying to sell me one!

They also seem to agree that only makes like HR hold their original cash value and then with a struggle. Inventory isnt worth very much in price though it does sell a boat .

The other thing they said was that there is an increasing tendency amongst the AWB's to treat boats like cars ie buy one and part ex it three years later for the lates model / a bigger model.

In the end, nobody in their right mind buys a boat as an investment. Its a toy and just like women and cars its going to cost you. The only question is how much.

 

[LeonF]

I would say going down as a rule. Prices advertised are not a good guide..we should look at prices actually paid. When I was looking at Hunter 30s some years ago they were actually selling for some 10 grand less than the advertised price, unless you were fortunate enough to get someone who was awash with cash and didn't realise that one could bargain down. The same with quality 26 footers that were selling for about 50 grand in the mid 90s that one can now pick up in the mid to upper 30s depending on condition. On the other hand I have been told that people who buy AWBs often realise that quality comes at a price and then buy the older better smaller boats for the same money they paid for their large AWB. Take Sigma 33s...very variable and seem to be going down unless you can find a rare one that hasn't been raced to bits and then you could have to pay for it.

 

[Guest]

As with cars etc. - you lose in first years of life - then they start to flat-line out.

EXCEPT where long waiting lists are in place - you can sell a new boat of stocks at more than you pay !! But rare.

Older boats tend to flat-line out especially on the real older ones ... 20yrs or more .... price paid year or 2 year ago = price today. So in real terms the price has dropped due to change of monetary value and inflation. EG - I paid 8K for my 25ft'r 7 yrs ago .... estimated value now 8 - 9K ......... probably sell for 7 - 8K .....

In terms of value and re-sale - IMHO opinion it is better to look at the 2 - 4 yr old AWB that is loaded with inventory, most defect's / warranty work has been carried out and boat is in full ready to go spec .....saving anywhere figures like 20K on new price of a 35 - 37 ft AWB .......and thats often BEFORE you start adding all the extras and bits you want to fit to the new one !!

The boating market may be expanding and numerous new hulls being put into the marinas .... but there is also an expanding and developing range of secondhand boats appearing on market making it a buyers heaven ... it is NOT a sellers market .....

 

[asj1]

You have to be careful to distinguish "real" prices from £ prices. The boat I finallyt bought cost £20k in Holland, plus another £15k on work to be done, which puts the all up cost at circa £35k. In 1983 her retail cost was about the same or a bit more -- which by chance is what I paid for a 3-bedroomed house that year. Conclusion; prices in real terms have come way down!

 

[LadyViolet]

Thank-you for all the responses... but surely there is a broker out there who maintains some hard statistics? Come on Ancasta, Michael Schmidt!

What about the average price of a five year-old 36ft Bavaria or Jeanneau in standard three-cabin configuration, offered for sale in the UK at the end of the season in each of 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004?

I appreciate that specs vary, but boats in volume production like these must have been available in sufficient quantities to give a fair average price.

If no-one comes forward, I will begin to suspect that there is a big dirty secret being concealed.

For what it's worth, I reckon that the combination of the following could be affecting the market negatively:

1. Strong UK economy, with a lot of equity withdrawal from houses, have encouraged a lot of yacht-owners to trade up
2. Weak continental European economies have prompted the volume builders there to redirect production into the UK market, keeping new prices down
3. Several new volume production builders have entered the market over the last 3-5 years, eg Legend's setting up in UK, Poncin, Hanse

Any thoughts?