Second furling headsail or a storm sail? Opinions sought...

[rays]

We have a Jeanneau 40 with in-mast furling and a 150% roller reefing genoa. Planning longer passages next year, initially UK south West and Ireland, maybe over to Holland and across the channel. By the end of the summer (or the year after) we'd like to be in La Rochelle to overwinter and then carry on down to spain/portugal/the Med in due course, day sailing where possible.

This is our first season with the boat so we are still evaluating it ,but have decided that we need a better way to reef the genoa + more sail plan options. The genoa doesn't work well when reefed by more than 60/70% so we need an alternative. We already have a strong point behind the existing furler + the neccesary fitting up the mast to add another forestay. The question is should this be a) a storm sail which can be flown from a removable second forestay OR b) a smaller reefing headsail (which would reef down more sucessfully) flown from a permanent roller reefing system. The problem with this is that it will hinder tacking with the genoa which will need to be fully furled and then un-furled again when tacking. The advantage is that it will go a some way to meeting the storm sail need whilst giving us more flexability and the option to fly both of the headsails downwind removing the need for cruising chute/spinnaker (which being short- handed we would like to avoid). Anyone have an informed opinion or have tackled similar situation. What would you do?

CD

 

[TigaWave]

This is the same set up as I had. The inner stay had a strop so that it could be positioned back near the shrouds if needed, when short tacking was called for.

In practice it was left in place as a back up, and we kept the storm sail hanked on in its bag and tied down, when on passage. If we need to tack we would simply ro9ll up and un roll the genoa. This doesn't happen very often on offshore passages.

I had a twin groove foil and used a No1 and No2 headsail rolled together, they could either be rolled out on the same tack or opened up to sail downwind.

If it gets really windy you want a proper small tough flat sail, this sail ensured we had a comfortable safe ride during a few storms. If I'd used a furling sail there would always have been the risk and worry of the furler falling apart under load. I've had this happen and trying to sort out broken and bent drums and bearings whilst mostly under water is not easy.

Just check the backing plates under the bow fitting, some cheaper awb's could be stronger.

 

[Talbot]

I would consider using the existing genoa when reaching, and use the second sail (much smaller) as a bash to windward heavier material flat cut sail with appropriate reinforcement for use as a storm sail. For running on a trade wind with twin headsails, this could be replaced temporarily with a larger down wind sail.

 

[cliffb]

Tigawave,
This is very interesting.
On the twin foil set-up with two headsails, were they both Genoas, and do they both have a set of sheets, and if so doesn't this make the roll up more than a little bulky?

 

[roly_voya]

There are a few points you could think about here. First is how far behind the headstay is the second stay attachment? If the luff length is getting close to 60% then treat it as a cutter and fit a flat cut headsail with about 5-10% overlap which will be supurbe once you get down to 2and/third reef on the main (you still need a storm sail thought). If its 70%+ of genoa then treat it as a scond headsail, probably on a roller if you are confident cut for medium/heavy weather and for windward work. The foward roller can then have a light weather sail or two for reaching/down wind. I have seen this setup work very well but it is a bit complex and expensive. Lots of people seem to fun the twin headsail arrangement on a twin foil roller but as you say it puts a lot of windage and wt just where you dont want it in heavy going, also think about what a disaster it would be if the drum ever let go and both unfurled in a blow!! does happen. The other main piont is why the 150% genoa? These are primarily racing sails that allow extra are within the rules without penalty but the amount of extra drive for cruising is insignificant exept perhaps for a true goaster. You could probably take off 30% of the overlap without noticing much difference and or cut the foot higher to keep it out of the water and improve vis. Nothing is worse than a bagger roller geny scooping up water when trying to get to windward in a blow.

 

[TigaWave]

Only need one set of sheets, as one is the left sail the other is on the right, when the smaller one is on the inside it just sits there, with the smaller one on the outside just take up the slack a bit in the sheet. They roll quite well together, you probably wouldn't notice that there were two sails there. The two sails I had were 120% genoa and a high cut 100% No 2.

With regards to Talbots comment of getting a second sail as a flat cut sail and use it as a storm sail. For the conditions you need the storm sail you want it tiny not a no2 or 3! I think ours was 7m? it looked like a windsurf sail, crusader advised on the size for a 40' boat and they were right. It was less than 10% of full sail area.

My inner stay was only 10-15cm behind the forestay.

 

[TigaWave]

In reply to roly, when the going gets tough the roller sails are always lashed tightly not just furled. so even if the drum or furling line breaks they wont unwind. I would never trust the furling line! one thin line and one cleat with lots of chafe points, thats asking for trouble.

The extra windage from two is nothing, I don't think you could tell if they were wound up tight.
Look at the base of the stay this is with the padding on the No1.
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e64/Tigawave/?action=view&current=8759db67.jpg

If you've forgotten to lash them then I don't think two loose is much worse than one, either situation = really really bad news!

 

[Onyva]

Umm....interesting. We have a similar set-up, although the 2nd (removable) forestay is already fitted and we have a spare furling working jib (bagged). Following our circumnavigation we would definitely want 2 permanently fitted furling headsails (which would mean a slightly bigger boat!). What we ended up doing was swapping our furling headsails around all the time. With your planned N European sailing plans I would be tempted to swap your 150 for a much smaller working jib and maybe consider some kind of geneker or cruising chute for light winds. We never used our storm jib once in 28000M and our reefed headsails were absolutely fine in 50K+ winds.